1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

Do you call chips that the scorer calls lost?

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by ffwildcat, Mar 17, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. ffwildcat

    ffwildcat TS Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2006
    Messages:
    845
    This subject came up recently after an event I shot at last week. One of the squad members was a young kid who saw a chip on a target from the shooter to his left that the scorer called lost. the kid raised his hand and called the chip which i also verified. the scorer changed it to dead. the shooter was pleased as he also saw the chip.

    later the same thing happened only the scorer refused to change the call.

    come to find out today (one week later) that the club holding the event called the kid's home club and complained about the kid calling the targets.

    so what's the lesson.

    do the right thing and call the shots as you see them or let the scorer call them and hopefully things even out over time?

    i have scored enough events to be comfortable being corrected by shooters on the line who verify that the bird was dead but apparently some scorers don't take it too well.

    what say you?
     
  2. bcnu

    bcnu Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,197
    It is not a rule but if several or even just one or two shooters claim they saw a chip, it will usually get changed. It is however, up to the scorer. John
     
  3. dibbz

    dibbz TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    27
    If any of the squad members other than the shooter see a visible piece, not dust, then it's a dead target and the scorer should change the lost target to dead, and initial the change on the scoresheet.
     
  4. famill00

    famill00 TS Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2006
    Messages:
    610
    I truly believe that all shoots should be ran as the ones at Rangers Gun Club (Sebree KY) and Crab Orchard Gun Club (Clay KY). At each of these two places there are TWO people behind the line sitting there watching targets. One person scores and watches the targets both, and the other person solely watches the targets. I commend these guys for always rounding up people to do the job. To me this is the only way that alot of this can be taken care of. I have helped watch, and caught a view of a chip that the person scoring didnt see. It is hard to score and watch for every little chip at the same time. Do you all think that this should be standard practice at all clubs?

    Just MHO,
    Forrest
     
  5. Cherokee Kid

    Cherokee Kid TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    291
    Check your rule book ifner.
     
  6. slide action

    slide action Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    4,918
    Yes IF I definetly see a clear visible piece come off. If I have any doubt, I say nothing. As posted above the scorer may(but is not required to)change the score. Two years ago I knocked a "very small" chunk out of a target at the Grand. Two people on my squad called it, but the kid refused to change the score. I ended with a 98 instead of a 99, but had no sour grapes. I guess I should have hit it harder. The scorer has the FINAL word as mentioned before.
     
  7. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,864
    Man I've got to go through that rule book again! I've never seen a rule like irfner and dibiz cite. I've seen the one about the scorer being the referee, though.

    And yes, I call visible chips. Conversely, I correct lost birds called, in error, "dead."

    Neil
     
  8. Charles L. Schmidt

    Charles L. Schmidt TS Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2006
    Messages:
    410
    Yes absolutely. And when it comes to one of my own I'll bring it up as well. However I'll simply ask my squad-mates if any saw the chip that I just saw. I'd never do it unless I was certain, and I most certainly accept whatever the rest of the squad says.

    I once broke a target in half, the scorer hollered LOST and nobody on the squad spoke up until I asked. After all it's a gentlemen’s game. I've seen scorers score from well behind the 27 yard line while shooting Singles and Doubles. And from inside covered golf carts in the pouring rain. They don't always get it right. The scores should be accurate.

    But you have to be careful, because wads can sometimes look like chips. Experienced shooters know the difference. cls
     
  9. Colonel Reb

    Colonel Reb TS Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2006
    Messages:
    166
    In cowboy action, we use three counters, and the philosophy is pretty much "if you think it is a miss, it's a hit". Favor goes to the shooter. I've noticed in trapshooting it is opposite, more of "if you think it's a dead bird, it's lost". It really is lost bird until proven dead, so I'm not surprised at all at what happened. Trapshooting doesn't really have a "spirit of the game" and it's more dog eat dog competition.
     
  10. foghorn220

    foghorn220 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,535
    ffwildcat:

    Just today I went to a registered shoot and a score was marked wrong in the doubles event because my friend had got a broken bird and only shot at the first one and then re shot the pair.

    Anyway after the round was over the scorer had him missing 1 out of the last 10 because he counted the broken pair as a miss anyway he re shot it and broke them both so it was a dead pair but the club probably hadn't thrown very many registered doubles in the past so it was all nwe to them im sure.

    Anyway I agree with if more than 1 person see's a visiable peice of the bird on the squad to step up and say so because I used to score and pull also at the same time and sometimes the scorer is to busy in keeping up especially in doubles to see every thing that goes on.


    Ok the only exception is if the same squad always see's chips all the time when the other squads don't of course some people are so low that they will cheat for that extra couple of bucks but we all know who they are at all of our local clubs so it wouldn't take long to cull them out.

    By the way Forrest nice to meet you today at Hopkinsville KY at the registered shoot I saw this was your first A.T.A. shoot im glad you went ahead and shot the handicaps also because if you decide to go to a big shoot then they will penilize you if you don't have enough targets so it's best to have them in because im sure you like the sport but if you go to a big shoot and have to shoot from the whatever penalty yard line and gwet punched then you are stuck there for awhile and it might had been that lucky day when everything lined up right.

    But after that you might go for 2 years and get frustrated and want to give it up im sure you are like me we can't go and shoot on the circut because we got an every day job to do.

    Also it had been 20 years since I have seen Barry he was the one with the 1100 stuff that you was talking to.

    <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>

    Foggy
     
  11. rennerize

    rennerize Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,928
    I call any and every chip that I see, I think it is each shooter's responsibilty to watch out for each other and help the score keeper too.
    Don
     
  12. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,594
    I do JUST as Sir Winston describes....breakemall....Bob Dodd
     
  13. southpark

    southpark TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    400
    Ever since I started shooting with four of my best friends, who happen to be from KY, and who keep a sharp eye out for my chips and aren't afraid to tell the scorer, I've noticed I haven't missed a single bird when playing the options!
     
  14. foghorn220

    foghorn220 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,535
    Ok I was going to put this in my other post for Forrest but forgot ok it is nice to have 2 looking for chips during the shoot ok this was at Crab Orchard gun club at the 100 bird non registered shoot a month or 2 ago.

    Ok at a big shoot now days most of the time the scorer don't have to pull the target because it is all voice call's now days even the small clubs has them.

    But even though it is a good ideal to have 2 people to watch for the birds but it will never happen in our life time because can you imagine of hiring twice as many help for the shoot's because after the new wears off from being a club member then things change's.

    Hey Charles L. Schmidt did you shoot the same club I did way down south with the scorer in the covered golf cart if im not mistaken they held the southern grand there this year ok I think it's been there other years also.

    Foghorn220
     
  15. midalake

    midalake Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,730
    YES!!! I call chips reguardless of who I am shooting with. It is the right thing to do.

    GS
     
  16. Charles L. Schmidt

    Charles L. Schmidt TS Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2006
    Messages:
    410
    Yeah that's the place Foggy, and please call me Chuck.

    Greg, are you still loading a few small chips in all of your reloads?

    =)

    cls
     
  17. ffwildcat

    ffwildcat TS Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2006
    Messages:
    845
    I call any and every chip that I see, I think it is each shooter's responsibilty to watch out for each other and help the score keeper too. Don

    Don - what you describe is how our SCTP kids are instructed. If you see a chip, call it by raising your hand and turning to the scorer. The kids are told to watch out for their squad mates as scorers are human and subject to making errors and of course, nobody likes a cheat so calling lost birds dead is strictly forbidden.

    I think this approach is the fairest and best for all involved and results in the promotion of good sportsmanship. At least that is the way I see it.

    Interesting topic.
     
  18. foghorn220

    foghorn220 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,535
    southpark

    Are your eyes brown yet!!!!



    Im sure that is a joke for us KY shooter's or maybe it's not because you think everyone from KY that wins the big money has to be a cheater well I would say to you just go to all of the pot shoot's that the Handicap winners goes to and you will see them shooting from the 50 yard line in a buddy shoot and the next day shooting a registerd shoot with the legal load for A.T.A. shooting.

    [edited]
    ok I see you was just joking now in you other post.

    Fog
     
  19. southpark

    southpark TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    400
    Awe, you guys know I'm foolin.

    I have found myself feeling guilty when I wasn't paying attention to another shooter and he thought he broke one. I agree you should make some effort to pay attention so a fellow shooter doesn't get robbed by an inattentive sixteen year old, or sixty year old, pot smoking puller -- who, thank goodness, don't usually pull anymore.

    As cited above, I believe the puller has the final word. I wish they would wear better glasses. I've seen kids with scratched cheap plastic glasses scoring shoots where big money is on the line.

    Of course, I also wanted to highlight the possiblity of abuse if the puller always listens to the squad. I believe there have been incidents like this that are fairly well documented by the ATA.

    Kentucky gets a bad rap because of a few bad apples and I am certainly guilty of piling on. But if I stop joshin them the next thing you'll have me doing is admiting skeet shooters don't all wear skirts; well I'm just not buying it!

    My favourite KY shooter story is from the Grand many years ago where a "new" KY shooter was in a shoot off for a handicap event from the 20 yard line. He was shooting an 870, or maybe a model 12, but what is important is that after this "new" shooter would shoot at, and break, a target, he would shuck the shell with his slide action and it would lope through the air and he would shift his hip whereupon the empty hull would land right into the bag of empties hanging from his hip. "New" shooter my... well you understand.

    By the way Chuck, I missed your old gun by chump change trying to nickle and dime -- I'm an idiot. Now I'll be buying new. Oh well, it will be my first new trap gun and I'm going to go full-bore and get a McCarthy stock-lock stock to boot.

    Cheers
     
  20. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,229
    Location:
    Mesquite, Nevada
    Eye witnesses may make a mistake? Video surveillance from inside the traphouse should the question arise? Video taping a round may have helped (slide actions) chip n chunk day too.Instant re-play anyone? :) Hap
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.