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Do satellite grands hurt the small local gun club?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by senior smoke, May 5, 2011.

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  1. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

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    Hello:
    I was listening to a few shooters talk recently, and they were of the opinion that satellite grands hurt the small local gun club. A few of them felt that some shooters who use to shoot ATA shoots at the local clubs, now save their money so they can attend satellite grands instead.

    I don't believe this is the case, but they were adamant as they know numerous shooters who stopped shooting at local clubs in order to save money to attend these satellite grands.

    Do any of you feel the same way?

    Steve Balistreri
     
  2. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

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    With the economy the way it currently is, and the cost of gas etc, I think these shooters that were talking were trying to find a reason why shooting is down at local clubs. I believe once the economy comes back, so will the shooters. I don't think we will ever have the participation like back in the 70's again, but I do believe the amount of shooters will increase.
    Steve
     
  3. smsnyder

    smsnyder Well-Known Member

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    I for one have skipped many of the small shoots. With required ATA targets in it sometimes makes no sense for me to shoot at the smaller shoots. Besides saving money the rewards are far greater at the bigger shoots. Not to mention more vendors and more things to due while not shooting. More bang for the buck. I do not think the satellite grands hurt the small clubs. I think gas prices and lead prices hurt the clubs more.
     
  4. Ron Burdick

    Ron Burdick Active Member

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    Steve, This is my opinion only. The SATELLITE GRANDS have done much harm to ATA shooting at the smaller clubs that throw ATA targets.

    I believe when they started there were only going to be 5 SATELLITE GRANDS spread around the USA for the average trap shooter to attend a "big ATA shoot" These shooters were the ones who could not attend the Grand American.

    That original 5 has now grown into 10 SATELLITE GRANDS. 3 states now have 2 SATELLITE GRANDS each year.

    If these SATELLITE GRANDS were for the average shooter shouldn't they have been spread around a little more.

    The little clubs use to be where shooters were able to get their required targets to shoot their state shoot and the Grand American.
    By shooting 1 SATELITTE GRAND, shooters are able to obtain most of these required targets and skip going to the smaller clubs.


    Ron Burdick
     
  5. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    Steve, at our club any major ATA shoot hurts our attendance. In fact, it cuts participation in half. That's fine. Many of our ATA shooters are serious about competition, and that means they go to big shoots. Many of them stay for the entire shoot.

    We typically shot ATA on 1st and 3rd Sundays. This year we schedulde ATA only on the 1st Sunday, since 3rd Sun shoots are hurt by State shoots, zones, the Grand, and other big shoots. If enough shooters decide they want to shoot ATA on the 3rd Sunday, we'll accommodate them, since we'll be open anyway.
     
  6. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    Smoke,

    There is an affect but I doubt it is substantial.

    The up and coming "serious" ATA shooters are burning powder at the local clubs to hone their skills. I am (or at least trying to be) one of them. It takes a lot of targets to get good and we shoot them at our home club(s).

    Some of the older "serious" shooters are not shooting much due to a variety of reasons. They go to the big shoots to renew acquaintances and some do not shoot as many events as they used to. They are also shooting less at their "home" club(s).

    The real impact locally seems to be from the shooting done by "club shooters" who never shot much ATA anyway. At least that is what I am seeing.

    I enjoy the satellite grands and the bigger shoots but they are expensive to attend. If I was gong to cut down, I would start there and not the "local" one or two day shoots. But that is me.

    Don Verna
     
  7. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes Well-Known Member

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    I am with Ron Burdick's view. Yes, they have hurt the little clubs. In our area we have too many clubs for too few shooters, therefore clubs don't experience the attendance they did 15 to 25 years ago. Too bad, but we should all enjoy it while we can. The grim reaper is awaiting all of us. Shoot often in good health, Bob
     
  8. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

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    Some interesting comments so far.
    Steve
     
  9. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    I used to drive 400 miles to go to Helena for their Labor Day weekend shoot until Spokane (also 400 miles away) started hosting the Western Grand. This year I hope to be back in Helena since the Western Grand has moved.
     
  10. pyrdek

    pyrdek Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps someone can explain to me why "Very many "ATA members" register less than 1,000 targets per year. That is the real problem - not the extra baby grands." is a problem.

    I would have thought that having a large number of shooters shooting less than 1,000 targets but still paying their target fees and dues, would be better than having fewer shooters shooting fewer targets and not paying any dues. Which would be the bigger problem? If these "problem" shooters did not shoot any targets, would the "non-problem" shooters shoot more targets to make up for the revenue lost because of the "problem" shooters not shooting?

    A lot of "problem" shooters may shoot under the "required to be a non-problem shooter" 1,000 minimum targets because of costs, scheduling conflicts, travel time, local club non-availability or even just plain wanting to shoot only what and when they want and not having to meet some preconceived magical number of targets.
     
  11. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    I think that there being so many Satellite Grands has an impact on the smaller clubs because many shooters will fore go attending a few smaller shoots so they can attend a bigger shoot ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  12. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

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    As one who only shoots a few hundred register targets a year to update my averages and handicap, the situation from my perspective is analagous to a buyers market... so many choices and too few really competitive shooters...

    Yes, I suppose it nice to have the convenience of picking and choosing among any number of "baby" Grands, but from an economics standpoint, how do you make the numbers work?! I could make the argument that "Satellite" Grands siphon activity from Sparta as well.

    Lots of ATA members like me, help support the ATA, but I do nothing for registered shooting in the big picture - and while I might support a local trophy shoot 1-2 times a year, I wont compete in a "Grand", satellite or otherwise.

    Until the ATA and local clubs can figure out how to market the benefits of registering targets to the trapshooting masses, there will be no "real" improvement in registered numbers or attendance at events - even if the economy turns around and improves!

    Respectfully,

    Jay Spitz
     
  13. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    I don't think so..........
     
  14. Brad Dysinger

    Brad Dysinger Member

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  15. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    I feel that the ATA should do away with any sponsorship for a so-called "satellite grand" and channel their efforts to the one and only "Grand".

    If a state wants to put on a major shoot, so be it, but none of the ATA's money should be spent to market it.

    Curt
     
  16. bobdog

    bobdog Active Member

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    I don't agree. The way I see it, the big shoots are actually helping little club matches. I shoot club matches to practice for the bigger shoots, and I shoot as many weekends as I can. I wouldn't bother if I was just shooting locally.

    The economy has hurt the satellite grands more than local shoots, it seems to me. I decided to skip the Southern Grand this year when I realized it was going to cost me over $700 in gas to get there and back from Chicago. It would cost me $900 if it was held this week due to the higher price of gas. I decided it made more sense to shoot Great Lakes and Michigan State for the same amount of money. I'd bet a lot of serious shooters are making the same decision.
     
  17. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

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    So for those who advocate not having satellite grands, and to Roger C's point about local clubs cranking out many shooters (and it's not a flame, just another viewpoint . . . )

    After you crank out all these shooters do you expect them to continue to come back to the small club week after week or month after month to compete with the same 15-30-50-75 shooters? Don't you expect that some of them would like to shoot against better shooters and more of them? That's the entire point of the satellite grands (at least my interpretation), it's a regional event with a higher level of competition. Maybe there are too many, maybe there are not enough, but I can certainly see their place in the overall structure of things.

    Scott
     
  18. triplea

    triplea TS Member

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    Yes, they hurt the local shoots. However, I shoot very few local events and I enjoy the large ones for the competition. I don't need to get targets and time and travel limit the shoots I attend. I also believe that the ATA has carried the sat grand concept way beyond what was intended. But that also brings into focus Cardinal Center with 2 large (non grand) events and PA with 3 large (non grand) events. I have attended these and enjoyed them also. So what is the real problem?

    David Proper
     
  19. Carl Chadwell

    Carl Chadwell TS Member

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    Yes.

    peace.
     
  20. 1oldtimer

    1oldtimer TS Member

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    NO, Most of the small club shooters don't even know what a Satellite grand is. Clyde
     
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