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DO MOST SHOOTERS PAY CASH OR FINANCE GUNS???

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by senior smoke, Oct 24, 2007.

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  1. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

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    HELLO:
    i always thought that shooters paid cash for their expensive high quality trap guns. i spoke to a well known gun dealer who specializes in high quality trap guns and he said 90% or more finance their guns. he told me a story about a gun who financed a high quality gun, with minimal down payment. he said this same guy shortly thereafter, sold the gun to another gun dealer. what protects someone from purchasing a gun from someone in this situation? the company who originally financed the gun, called the dealer who purchased the gun and wanted the gun back. seems like a big can of worms now. ANYBODY KNOW WHAT HAPPENS IN A CASE LIKE THIS?????
    steve balistreri
     
  2. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    Yes Steve, the signed contract(s) setforth the responsibilities of the parties subject to the laws of the juridiction in which the contract was entered and perhaps the Uniform Commercial Code. If anyone doesn't understand or fulfill their responsiblities, the court system in the agreed jurisdiction will help them.

    This is, in all probability, a civil matter, not a criminal matter unless the purchaser/seller can be shown to have entered into the purchase agreement with the sole motive to defraud. An unlikely scenario if he used his real name.
     
  3. Gary Waalkes

    Gary Waalkes Well-Known Member

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    I have only heard a "story" and I am certain it is an urban legend. The "story" I heard had Hal Dupont selling a K gun to a guy and it was financed. That original owner subsequently traded the gun to another dealer and that dealer sold it to a guy who the next year brings it to the GA and wants Hal to tune it up and Hal wants to take the gun because the loan taken out by the original owner was never satisfied.

    What breaks down in the story is the fact the original buyer has an outstanding loan and the buck stops right there. The original company cannot reach further than the original buyer.
     
  4. scratcher

    scratcher TS Member

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    It's really none of our collective business' to be concerned or interested in how shooters pay for their guns. What's your next question Steve? What kind of underwear do trapshooters wear?


    Dick Gries
     
  5. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

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    dick- long time no see. hope everything is going well for you.steve
     
  6. smartass

    smartass TS Member

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    underwear, I don't wear no stinkin underwear.
     
  7. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    7-1/2's or 8's??

    Curt
     
  8. tvbill

    tvbill TS Member

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    Hanes with the comfort waist band. Color optional. tvbill
     
  9. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    Dick,

    Based on your screen name, you must be wearing wool.
     
  10. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    It's called larceny by conversion. Penalty is jail time. You sell something with a lien on it and don't satisfy the lien you are a thief. It doesn't matter if it is a gun, car, boat or what ever. I believe the lienholder has claim on the property.

    Don
     
  11. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    I never take out loans for toys and my trap guns are not essentials in life so its cash or nothing ... Same goes for the classic cars I'm into as well as any and all modifications to them ... I hate payments and paying interest ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  12. scratcher

    scratcher TS Member

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    JB

    No wool. Former screen name was Ballsitch; had to change it for hygiene reasons. Doc says got it from a toilet seat but I don't use toilets. Go thru a lot of underwear though. I also have difficulty getting other shooters to squad up with me. Just can't figure it out.
     
  13. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    Don,

    I think you will find that larceny by conversion usually covers property given to a person by another but the ownership of which continues to reside with the giver. An example would be a person selling the furniture out of a furnished apartment which they have rented.

    In the case of the gun, the ownership of the gun was conveyed to the purchaser in exchange for probably a cash down payment and some type of financing agreement. This agreement may or may not have created a lien on the gun. It may have just generally obligated the purchaser to repay the amount borrowed. If so, as long as the purchaser continues to make the payments as agreed, the status of the gun is immaterial. This is the concept that is used by credit card companies. They don't care what you do with what you buy using your credit card, you just owe them the money.

    For this scenario to rise to larceny, the gun would have to have been acquired under the concept of false pretenses meaning that the purchaser never had any intent to use the gun as intended, make any significant number of payments under the agreement and the sole intent of acquisition was to convert the gun to cash without any intent to use the proceeds to retire the debt. If this was the case, only a fool would use his real name to buy the gun.

    I think most legal advisors would advise against a seller creating a simple lien on a gun in that it is the type of property that is hard to recover/repossess if the purchaser loses it, it is stolen, significantly damaged or the purchaser moves out of state. Further, some laws require the lienholder to sell the repossessed item at fair market value and only pursue the purchaser for any deficiency if the purchaser fails to make payments. Consequently, a UCC filing protecting the seller should the purchaser become insolvent or bankrupt while making the purchase agreement a general obligation of the purchaser, is probably the most prudent path.
     
  14. code5coupe

    code5coupe Member

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    Anyone who borrows money to buy a gun is a financial fool.
     
  15. Gargoyle!

    Gargoyle! TS Member

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    Well its just like a car. You have to deal with the loan from the bank first before trading the car in or selling it.
     
  16. Dahaub

    Dahaub Active Member

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    Some sound advice about buying what you can afford here on trap shooter? I say good luck on trying to get a banker to loan you money with a trap gun as collateral. I don't think it will happen often . Most guys who buy toys on a loan have to put up their house or car or something else of value that is a tangible asset and readily and easily liquidated. This is not written in stone and no doubt there will be those who have borrowed money on a gun. Most haven't and most bankers won't make that loan. As for the practice of buying a gun that is more than you can currently afford? Go for it I say, just remember that guns are like new cars and they do depreciate and sometimes that shiny new gun you have the big eyes for is being overstated by the current owners. Sounds just like the speil of a used car salesman doesn't it? Make sure it fits hide it from Momma for a short period of time:) Let her get used to the idea of you shooting her vacation next year:) Dan
     
  17. smsnyder

    smsnyder Well-Known Member

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    most put guns on credit card but most pay off ASAP. I hate interest. if you have a credit score of 800 or better you can buy anything on credit. it's the interest that will kill you. if you can't afford it don't buy it.
     
  18. Jeff P

    Jeff P Well-Known Member

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    Given the 'right now' instant gratification attitude of most folks, I'll bet it would scare me to know how many guns are actually financed.

    And if lenders are dumb enough to loan a guy money for a gun, and he's dumb enough to borrow it...Barnum said it best. Caveat Emptor.

    Financial risk, and appropriate rates of interest for various loan types and amounts is in the process of being re-priced on a global basis as I type this.

    For reference, I refer you to Merrill Lynch's stock price (MER), or Countrywide Financial Services stock price.

    It's just starting....2008 is going to be a hoot, financial market wise....
     
  19. hunter870

    hunter870 Member

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    I buy them with credit but pay off the card at the end of the month.....Gotta love them frequent flier points.! Also, Amex does a far better job than I do of keeping copies of receipts for tax time.
     
  20. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    JBrooks; I guess the two cases I know of were faking it. One sold a boat and the other sold a snowmobile. They both ended up with a record and some jail time. A third left the state and they are waiting for him.

    Financing toys goes on all the time. Most don't read the contract.

    Don
     
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