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Do International Shooters Flinch?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by just_bob, Feb 22, 2009.

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  1. just_bob

    just_bob Member

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    If international shooters can't use a release, what do they do for a flinch?

    Or maybe they don't flinch with the lighter loads they use.
     
  2. ESMDHokie

    ESMDHokie TS Member

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    It's got to help that they have shells in both barrels in case they have the wrong barrel selected!

    Phil.
     
  3. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Banned User Banned

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    A combination of more gun movement, a higher level of focus required on a monumentally faster and more variable target, combined with a lighter recoiling load.

    I understand the prohibition on a release. One must ALWAYS be ready to make the second shot. Therefore, the trigger will always be set for the second shot whether or not it is taken. This would increase the likelihood of a negligent discharge.

    Simply discharging the firearm at a broken target makes no sense to me, especially now, with rising ammo costs.
     
  4. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    International shooters take the quality of their shotgun triggers seriously. They are light, creep free and break cleanly. This greatly reduces flinching. HMB
     
  5. Ahab

    Ahab Well-Known Member

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    When International shooters develop a flinch....they become trap shooters and post dumb stuff on here!
     
  6. FRedmon

    FRedmon Active Member

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    Ahab - you must be a trapshooter:)

    FRedmon
     
  7. comp 1

    comp 1 Well-Known Member

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    IF THEY DO THEY DON'T LAST LONG--THEY SHOOT QUICK,THROW 2 SHOTS AT EVERY TARGET AND DONT RIDE TARGETS OUT--THEIR TRIGGER PULLING MIND DOESN'T GET MIXED UP WITH THEIR SIGHT PICTURE MIND SINCE THEY DON'T GIVE IT TIME TO;ERGO NOT CAUSING A NUMBER ONE CAUSE OF FLINCHING.
     
  8. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    A close friend of mine and very Irish makes periodic pilgramages to the "old country". Last visit he brought along his K-80 and challenged the locals to a shootin' match using his release-pull trigger. He assured me the average Irishman is also a capable flincher as evidenced by several who took "station walk offs".

    Needless to say, he was quite the talk of the gun club as his "cure" worked so well. Only goes to show you, flinching is universal and not restricted to American trap.

    The experience I've had with many bunker shooters is they were mostly American Trap washouts. It's plenty easy to miss the more difficult target and not look as bad as the inability to break decent Singles scores!!
     
  9. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    The #1 cause of flinching is recoil.. Bunker is 24 gram at 1330 give or take.. Recoil is less.. PLUS.. most good clubs have a on site stockmaker.. Gun fit is taken far more serious than we do here in the states.. Which results in even less recoil.. Then.. there is no time to think about it.. the average bunker shot is all over in .400 of a second.. There is no riding of targets.. Ammo is 5.50/7 Euro per box.. and most Bunker shooters are far more affluent than our average trap shooter.. Very few reload.. My PFS stock was laughed at in the beginning.. but more and more shooters shoot my gun.. and like it alot. The "stock maker" has offered me a "custom" AAA wood stock if I would just put mine away.. YET.. he likes me to fit his problem shooters with it.. using it as a "try" stock.. Release triggers are not allowed.. and most shooters over there have never heard of them.. And yes..their triggers are ALWAYS maintained.. They shoot far less rounds than we do..and EVERY Perazzi shooter I know over there changes the springs in their shotgun and spare trigger EVERY year.. regardless of the number of rounds put thru the gun. That's ALL springs.. not just the trigger group. When I go to the club many seek me out..with all springs waiting for me..(usually in August).. Some change their firing pins too. All Good. Mike
     
  10. gun fitter

    gun fitter TS Member

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    They also don't wine as much unless it's Chianti.

    They have learnd that you can avoid flinching through Gunfit, Shells, and proper technique.

    Joe
     
  11. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Didn't the International loads of old have a full 1-1/4 ounce payload? Before they began reducing the payloads to 24 grams available now? Hap
     
  12. gun fitter

    gun fitter TS Member

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    I remember those shells everyone flinched on occasion.
     
  13. gun fitter

    gun fitter TS Member

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    Dawg- Who is your Irish friend? Since Release triggers are Verboten (forbidden)
    I'm curious where on earth a bunker club would allow release triggers. I'm not saying this is a fabrication just want to know where?


    Dawg"The experience I've had with many bunker shooters is they were mostly American Trap washouts. It's plenty easy to miss the more difficult target and not look as bad as the inability to break decent Singles scores!! There you go again! Stop being a hater. You admit Bunker presents hard targets. Are you saying that the only good shooters are ATA singles shooters who can shoot their mindless targets over and over?"

    Are you half cocked or half crocked. Remember the Irish invented drinking and the fish story.
     
  14. Dednlost

    Dednlost Member

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    Shooters in every discipline can develop a flinch if they shoot long enough period, even air rifle shooters.
     
  15. Baber

    Baber TS Member

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    We should remember that two of our greatest Bunker Shooters Don Haldaman 1976 Gold medalist and Tom Gargius 1968 Silver medalist used RT's to win their medals. There are many reasons for the use of RT's recoil, Target panic, age, etc. The problem with many ATA shooters is that they start using a RT because so many around them are using them. I believe that there are quite a number of RT users that really never needed one.

    Tom
     
  16. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Why Joe, his name in Brendan and a pretty fair shooter since he went to release. And what insight can you provide about the simplicity of mindless American Trap from your perpetual Handicap-the 20yd. line. Did you actually read the post from a shooter who is aware of flinching with air rifles-poor stock fit you propose. Making stocks is a wonderful activity and I admire your talents-their ability to eliminate flinching is suspect.

    In the meantime, don't un-case your gun at any real Trapshoot and proceed to display your tremendous shooting skills. That won't be good for business!!
     
  17. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Tbaber, I had the pleasure of shooting off with Don Haldaman back in 1969 at a local shoot. Surprisingly-I won and still enjoy that small victory at the tender age of 20. Don seemed a pleasant individual!!
     
  18. TOOLMAKER 251

    TOOLMAKER 251 Active Member

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    Don Halderman and I worked together for 21 years before he went out with his stroke. He used the release trigger not because he had a flinching problem but for speed on the 2nd shot. 2 motions release pull. For all the people who don't know Don, he won the gold with a Kreighoff M32
     
  19. gun fitter

    gun fitter TS Member

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    Dawg I never said that I was a great trapshooter like you. I know how to shoot and considering the few hundred trap targets I shoot total in any year I shoot some good scores and a lot of poor ones. Remember I probably have shot a total of 3000 targets in the last 10 years. 25 years ago I used to shoot 25,000 targets a year.

    What matters here is not weather you can shoot but what do we know about flinching.

    I'll propose this I did not invent flinching although I have flinched from time to time. I did not figure out anything special. In fact what I teach has been around for many years. I use several techniques one of which Harlan Campbell promotes.

    Now what you don't know about me. My strengths are in Gunfitting and instruction. Not shooting. Would you rather go to Michael Phelps or his coach to learn how to swim. My strengths are in the experiences I have had with many top level shooter/instructors and my ability to convey that to my customers.
    I include information which has come from other shooting disciplines as well.

    If you look at the top shooting instructors none of them had any Professional instruction. Not Kay not Harlan not Leo. They had someone help them but they know from their own personal shooting experience. This is why we hear how this one is good for this or he is better to go to for that.

    I have had lots of exposure to shooting instruction. My mentor was the Head Shooting Instructor for Holland & Holland. The next person of note I worked with was Dan Carlisle. That along with my exprience in Olympic Archery are the base which I have built upon when I started working in shotgunning full time.
    I am a certified public school teacher in New Jersey. I only did it to learn how to teach. At Present I can count atleast 10 different shotgun instructers I have had instruction with. This created a broad understanding of the mechanics of shotgunning in general. In this respect I believe I may have a lot more to offer here than you realize.


    I take comments like yours to heart for the following reason. I have worked hard at my chosen profession. I have also spent lots of money in order to be able to do my job better. God knows I could make lots more doing something else. When I retired for the first time I was a Truck/commercial sales manager in charge of a 10 dealership group.

    By the way I probably would not be doing this if it were not for Jack Concannon.
    I was tired of seeing his shoddy work and poor instruction. My motivation is to help shooters and it's more than a few
     
  20. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Joe Goldberg lifetime target totals from ATA official records;

    Singles-800

    Handicap-1,000

    Doubles-1,050

    Joe, you're getting yourself in way too deep to get out.

    If I wanted to learn how to hit I'd see Mike Schmidt-not Dave Schneck(1969 NY Met).

    Frank Little once asked me if he could borrow my allen wrench. He'd just broken the first 100 Singles and felt the need to raise his comb slightly. He then proceeded to break the next Hundred. Was I responsible for his success!!
     
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