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Do I have a LEMON??

Discussion in 'Off Topic Threads' started by blkcloud, May 26, 2011.

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  1. blkcloud

    blkcloud Active Member

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    In 2007 we bought a new Chev. suburban, 4x4 sun roof leather, the works, At 50k miles it started using oil.. so bad that the warning light would come on.. ENGINE OIL LEVEL LOW.. took it in, they told us to document the oil usage for 3-4 months so they could tell GM.. well we did it, so they put in a splash guard in the oil pan some where said it was fixed and sent us on our way, a few months later, ENGINE OIL LEVEL LOW.. same shit.. this time, the put a new valve cover on with a special pvc valve.. same shit.. fill up the oil, check the gas,so now they have ordered another valve cover.. it will come in next week.. also during this time, around 60k miles the transmission went out.. towed it in, they rebuilt the trans. my wife drove it about 3 miles, it went out again, towed it in, got a new one put in, last weekend while we were out of town shooting, the traction control decided to come on while leaving a restraunt, wouldnt go over 20 mph.. cut it on and off several times and finally got it to get up to speed and made it home.. check engine light on the whole time, took it in, they put some type of throttle body position sensor crap on.. sent us home, it went 11 miles and same shit.. we just left it on the side of the road and told them to tow it in.. its there now.. I have never had so much trouble with anything other than a old 1969 JD tractor I once
    had... my question.. do I have a Lemon? have any of you ever dealt with lemon laws? what to do? thanks!
     
  2. ColtM1911A1

    ColtM1911A1 Member

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    In a word - yes....
     
  3. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    In a word- Unlikely

    Your state might have a lemon law. Generally if you were past the initial warranty miles though it wouldnt apply. Many states only have the lemon period for the first 12-24 thousand mile limit and 1-2 years as I seem to remember.

    It seems like yours would be way past that.

    I have taken these casees to court and prevailed but you have to meet the standard in the law, which will be very specific.

    If you have any questions- research it yourself and see a local attorney after you research it.

    Regards from Iowa

    Gene

    PS it is unclear who you have doing your repairs- if it is GM I believe they offer a warranty on repairs- you need to find that out and demand warranty and not lemon law. Again, dont go past the warranty service gurantee period

    If you have someone else doing the maintenance- good luck with the someone else warranty
     
  4. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    Thats how they build them, its called Job Security ... Time to buy a new one and start over or get an import with the 10 year /100,000 mile warrantee that don't break down ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  5. Sam (ATA Noobie)

    Sam (ATA Noobie) Member

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    Sounds like a bad tranny rebuild job was probably related to the traction control issue (sensors broken, damaged, etc. in the rebuild)

    Oil use: Splash gaurd isn't going to help that! Is it an internal or external leak? Any oil in the engine valley?

    A valve cover gasket doesn't make your truck a lemon.
     
  6. RickNE

    RickNE Member

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    07-08 Suburbans are known for oil usage. I have an 07 with 90k miles. I replace at least 1 quart of oil between changes (every 3k miles), sometimes 2 quarts.

    I chased the problem for a little while and got no where. No leaks at all. After researching it, I found that it's a pretty common problem. Right or wrong, I have just excepted it, drive it, and add a quart of oil about every 1500 miles.

    Other than that, I've had no problems with mine.

    Sorry to hear about the tranny issue, though.
     
  7. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Buy a Hyundai. HMB
     
  8. pdq

    pdq Member

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    How often do you change your oil, and what type of oil are you using?

    Mercedes in the early 2000s came out with a "Flexible Service System" where the FSS was supposed to constantly electrically evaluate the quality of the oil and alert the driver when it needed to be changed, projected to be every 10 to 13,000 miles using **regular** oil.

    It wreaked havoc with the engines. Piston rings got stuck, sludge build up, and engines started getting miserable mileage and using lots of oil. This with engines with only 40 - 50,000 miles on them.

    The cure? They found that if they went with Mobil 1 and changed the Oil & Filter, then repeated O&F on 500 - 1000 mile intervals, the Mobil 1 would dissolve the crud around the rings which would then re-seat themselves, and all the sludge would be dissolved as the Mobil 1 had a more aggressive detergent package than standard oil. It required 3 - 4 changes before things back to normal.

    After that, they put out a bulletin that any car after model year X had to be switched to Mobil 1 synthetic -- they were getting hammered on warranty work. All in the name of trying to reduce the cost of maintenance to the owner.

    Pete
     
  9. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    I took WPT Bills advice in 2004 and again this spring. Knock 'em or me if you choose but both vehicles came with or near 10 year 100,000 mile warranties that i didn't have to pay extra for. Its not needed. Thats why they give it to you for free. Amazingly enough, i have not had to use the warranty on either. Recalls are promptly fixed without the arguements that GM use to do every time i had an issue with my GM vehicles. With GM it was never their fault or problem. They always took the stance that the customer was wrong. If something was broken, i must have done something wrong to cause it. The manufacturers of my current vehicles also didn't need a billion dollar loan from our government to build it and pay their employees because of their piss poor buisness practices. The Wifes new one also has two years of free maintenance. Oil changes, filters, tire rotations all free. I was a diehard GM man for many many years. I can remeber near fist fights over my GM stance. They crapped on me and the rest of us in this country. I won't give them that chance again. Good luck with your GM. Maybe Obama will loan 'em so more money so they can fix it for ya. Just say'n...................
     
  10. neofight

    neofight TS Member

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    I agree that you probably don't have a lemon law case here. Certain criteria must be met and usually at much lower mileage, including having the very same issue addressed repeatedly, not a variety of issue necessarily. You did not mention, unless i missed it, how many miles under normal driving conditions you can go before your oil level drops to at or below the add mark on the dip stick? If it's not dripping or gushing, due to a leak, it's either collapsed or worn/broken oil rings or cooked valve guide seals.

    If you can go 2,000 miles or so and only have to add a quart, that will be far cheaper than trying to track down a problem that will run you hundreds, if not a couple grand or more to repair. There are some products out there than sometimes will restore valve guide seals, at least for awhile......not so much for oil rings. I believe Lucas products has one.

    Whoever did the tranny should stand behind it all the way with those few miles since it was repaired. If not, the courts love to chew up fraudulent repair shops. Document everything. This should easily fall within the guidelines for small claims court if need be.

    I have an '07 1 ton Chevy Duramax under warranty(thank God!) and it's already had it's share of shop time at GM's expense. A new turbo, 02 sensor, major component in the fuel system(name escapes me at the moment) plus a couple minor recalls so far and i only have 56k on it. I found it interesting that they have to remove the cab from the chassis in order to get to the turbo. I think i see a Peterbuilt to carry my 5th wheel in the future.Hope you get things worked out. It's always so frustrating.
     
  11. Bruce Specht

    Bruce Specht Well-Known Member

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    It sounds as if you do in fact have a "lemon", first step is to contact the dealer and validate if you haven't, all of your request for service.If you have saved all your receipts it makes your job easier. Request a meeting with the area service rep. present your case and see what they say. If that dosen't work for you, contact the GM offices in the area. Your next step would be to contact the state you live in to find out about the lemmon laws and how they apply. The oil usage problem being unresolved is where you would most likely be able to make your case.
     
  12. StonewallRacing

    StonewallRacing Well-Known Member

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    2004 RAM with Hemi.... Same $h!t with burning oil.

    I add a quart every 1500.

    SW
     
  13. BAD 303

    BAD 303 Active Member

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    The common theme is sad when you consider we the taxpayers are also helping bail these poorly run companies out. Nothing like spending billions to keep a turd afloat.
     
  14. blkcloud

    blkcloud Active Member

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    A valve cover gasket doesn't make your truck a lemon..
    Sam, the pvc valve that is supposed to be causing all the oil usage trouble is built into the valve cover..

    the sub. doesnt leak a drop of oil.. we park it in the basement garage everynight..

    as far as oil changes and repairs.. I personally have never turned the first screw on it.. all oil changes, air filters, even the wiper blades were done at the dealer.. We were driving down the road one day and my cell rang.. it was the service manager, he was behind us, (had our number on speed dial..lol..) he said we had a tail light out.. my wife took it in the next day and they replaced it.. $2.50..
     
  15. ken1okie

    ken1okie Active Member

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    I don't buy that crap about 07,08 Suburbans using oil. They use the same engines as the pickups and they are not known for wholesale use of oil. If I had a engine using a quart every 1500 miles I'd be on that dealer in a minute.
    No leaks...it's burning it. Either inoperative PCV or bad ring seal.
     
  16. CalvinMD

    CalvinMD Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like its time to visit a Ford dealer ; )
     
  17. sliverbulletexpress

    sliverbulletexpress TS Member

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    What kind of oil do you run in it?
     
  18. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    I retired from 38 years in a GM shop - 11 as a master technician and 27 as a service manager. Oil consumption was always a hard topic to explain to customers.

    First, all engines that run burn oil. It's a fact. If they didn't, the rings would seize to the cylinder walls and they wouldn't run. I know, you never have to add oil to your car. That's because every time you start the engine cold, it develops condensation on the internal parts and that water replaces the oil the engine burns, keeping the oil level normal. Put 2,000 miles on it after the last oil change and then drive a tank of fuel out of it at constant highway speeds, getting the engine good and warm and keeping it at the normal operating temperature for a few hours. You might have to add more than a quart.

    The Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) has a standard for automobile oil consumption - the last I heard, that standard was 750 miles per quart. I know that sounds excessive and difficult to accept, but that's not an automaker's standard, it's the SAE's. At one time, most automakers would not repair an engine unless the DOCUMENTED oil consumption was more than a quart every 750.

    "Documented" meant that the dealership changed the engine oil and filter using the type of oil recommended for the engine in question and a factory oil filter, checked the engine for leaks and repaired any that were found and checked/cleaned the PCV system. Then the customer had to return to the dealership whenever he/she felt the oil was low. The dealership confirmed the low level, topped it off as needed and recorded the amount added and the mileage.

    Lemon Law qualification isn't cut and dried. I retired in 2008, but then you had to have had three unsuccessful repair attempts by a franchised dealership for the same condition to qualify. And then, you weren't home free. You could hit a home run or strike out.

    I had a young couple who bought a new Cavalier Z24 from us in 1987 complain about cold-start stalling and hesitation on acceleration. After two repair attempts, we received a Technical Service Bulletin from GM stating that the condition was being caused by excessively lean fuel calibration and that an updated PROM chip for the PCM would be available within 45 days. At that point, since the condition was unrepairable without that new programming, I would not attempt to correct the condition on their car as well as any other 3.1L vehicles until we had the new chip in stock.

    They filed for Lemon Law and got a hearing even though there had not been three unsuccessful repair attempts. The arbitrator for the independent organization that held those hearings drove the car. It didn't exhibit either condition for him but he decided in the customers' favor and ruled that GM had to refund every cent they paid for the car with no mileage deduction for 13,000 miles or consideration of the $750 rebate they had received.

    Another customer had a 1986 Chevy Nova, which was a Toyota Corolla with a bowtie emblem and a Delco radio and battery. It would very intermittently shut off on acceleration from stops. We threw every fix GM had at the car - and there were a bunch of TSBs on the condition - and finally sent the car to a Toyota dealership, where we paid $800 for what actually was a partially illegal repair (one of the things done was changing the carburetor jetting). The car still fell on its face about once every three weeks and always decided to do it when traffic was bearing down. I suggested the customer apply for Lemon Law.

    That arbitrator drove the car and because it did not exhibit the condition, found for GM in spite of my testimony and a service history file as thick as telephone directory.

    My future daughter-in-law has a 2006 Pontiac G6 GT that shakes almost violently for the first few miles in cold weather. Her dealer replaced numerous suspension parts and put new tires of a different brand on the car but it still shakes her silly for the first couple of miles in the winter. Her Lemon Law hearing only netted her $1,500, so you never know how those hearings will turn out.

    Ed
     
  19. Husky44

    Husky44 Active Member

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    Regardless of brand if you no longer can trust the vehicle get rid of it. Life’s too short to stay home pissed at undependable transportation. jmho
     
  20. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    I have driven GM cars most of my adult life. I have had eight consecutive Cadillacs, and have had my last General Motors.

    I am looking at a fuel miser made by Honda. The last two Caddies cost a fortune to keep running, and many parts are no longer available for my Concours. I will also never again buy a limited model.

    I looked at a Hybrid, but have not found a single person in the auto repair industry, either in parts, or service that owns one or recommends one. They all say to wait for the technology to get better. 40+ mpg in town and on the road appeals to me.
     
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