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DISHED IN CRIMPS

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by soup, May 24, 2011.

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  1. soup

    soup Member

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    RELOADERS ,

    I'm having a little bit of an issue with dished in crimps . I load on a PW 800 Plus w/Auto Mate II . I'm loading once fired Gun Clubs-Rem 209 primers-Rem TGT12 wads-17.2 Grn. Red Dot -1 ounce # 8 1/2 shot . I'm getting these poor crimps inconsistantly . The wad is just about inside the hull , not at all too deep . The finished shells look perfect in the crimping station , but I'll get about 30-to 40% dished in crimps when they are ejected . NOT ALL OF THEM -and not in any sequence . I have the dies numbered ( 1-8 ) and you'll get a good shell from say #3 and the next time around #3 is dished .

    Most of them do not have shot spilling out they are just dished in way too much . I have taken a finished shell out of the die after it is crimped and it is fine . Put it back in and eject it and it gets dished . If it was every shell I would point to the ejector -but it's not .

    If you have had this same problem or know the solution I'd appreciate the advice.

    Thank you all in advance for your time and help . Have a safe Decoration Day weekend and remember those who served and those now protecting us in your prayers .

    SOUP
  2. cartucci

    cartucci Member

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    I'm having the same exact problem with my pw 900
  3. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    You might want to speak with a couple of the resident PW experts. Whiz White is one that comes to mind. I haven't had issues like that with my PW, but I don't use it much. It just works when I do use it. I find I have more experience with the Mecs and some of the older Pacifics. Either I use them more, or they require more maintenance. Probably a combination of both. I would start by checking the shot drops and the powder drops to be sure they are consistent. I use a similar load and have not experienced any trouble with dished crimps. The one thing I would look at is the length of the hulls before loading. Remingtons have been known to vary quite a bit and that could be at the root of your problem. Variations in length could cause inconsistent crimps. It's worth looking at.
  4. mr.mark

    mr.mark Member

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    Have you tried any brass based hulls to see if you have the same results? The PW loaders do an exceptional job of holding hulls securely, and resizing at the same time. Occasionally a shell will be harder to push out of the die and therefore on the knockout station when the narrow rod contacts the middle of the top of hull, in the crimp section, it will set the middle of the crimp in deeper, giving the illusion of a dished in crimp.

    Things to try would be:

    Use brass based hulls such as sts, aa or gold medal.

    Remove and clean the inside of the dies.

    Try lubricating bases of 8 shells every 100 rounds or so, effectively re-lubricating the dies. May have to do more often with steel based hulls.



    I notice this even with sts occasionally because the hulls have been loaded 8 or 10 times, are exceptionally dirty, or the brass has become work hardened and resists resizing...I usually put these in the cull box and shoot for dbls to kick on the ground.

    Hope this helps,

    Mr. Mark
  5. soup

    soup Member

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  6. 1oldtimer

    1oldtimer TS Member

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    I haven't Had a PW for quite some time. If there is a crimp starter station,it needs to be set deeper. This works on MEC loaders. Clyde
  7. rennerize

    rennerize Active Member

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    I have loaded on a PW for more than forty years. If you take the dies and bore them out about .003 it will solve the problem. they are just too tight and the ram has to put too much pressure on them to punch them out.
    Don
  8. Border Bandit

    Border Bandit Active Member

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    It could be there's too much pressure on your wad seating at station #4 (the one before the shot drop). Loosen the knurled knob and back off the screw from the top. Wad pressure in the PW machine is not critical, and all this does is get the wad down into the hull and just touching the powder. PW instructs to insert a dowel from underneath and push up until there's a little clearance; but you can do the same thing by grasping the die and moving it with your fingers. To review: with the tool shelf up as far as it will go, (handle down) turn the adjustment screw up or down until you can "jiggle" the die up and down just a fraction of an inch. I suspect, in your case, it will hardly move.

    Best...mike
  9. kiv-c

    kiv-c Member

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    Ditto to what MK said. Resizing with a Super Sizer is a good idea, if for no other reason than it saves wear & tear on the loader and your arm - especially If you are using hulls fired in a semiauto!

    Have you cut open any shells with dished crimps to see if they contain the correct amount of shot?

    Kiv
  10. cartucci

    cartucci Member

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    can someone post pics of some dish crimped shells?
  11. Stl Flyn

    Stl Flyn Active Member

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    That is a great load. I put that exact load in a STS, on a Hornady 366 and they come out perfect every time. So, I am thinking it is the ejection system that is causing the dished shells, if there is that much resistance.
  12. wolfram

    wolfram Active Member

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    The component selection you quoted should fill the hull very nicely - dished crimps shouldn't exist. I have to ask the inevitable - are you sure the full charge of powder and/or shot actually got into the shells that came out looking dished?
  13. JACK

    JACK Active Member

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    you want pics? here ya go


    [​IMG]
  14. soup

    soup Member

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    FOLKS ,

    The wad I am using is Remington TGT12S -it states for 1 or 1 1/8 ounce loads . Is this the same wad you all use in 1 once loads ? The other Remington wad is the FIGURE 8 & that is for 1 1/8 ounce loads .
    My wad is seated less than 1/8 of an inch from the top of the hull. If I raise it any higher it won't be totally inside the hull . So wad depth is not the problem . I cut open a dished crimp and a perfect crimp ; the powder charge was identical & the shot on the good crimp had 6 more # 8 1/8 pellets . I don't believe that is significant but I may be wrong . How do I account for the inconsistancy ??? Some shells are absolutly perfect , and the next one may be dished .
    I would guess that NORMALLY a poor crimp is the result of improper components of the hull being loaded , or a press that is out of adjustment , which would result in ALL shells with bad crimps etc . Not all my shells are bad .

    I am lost here beyond GPS and I want to make corrections one at a time as I believe you only compound the mess by adjusting several things at once .

    Thank you in advance for your help .

    SOUP
  15. 1oldtimer

    1oldtimer TS Member

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    The shell picture you show looks fine to me. Shoot um.
  16. wolfram

    wolfram Active Member

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    Okay Soup,

    I think it is the steel heads of the GC hulls causing excessive friction in the PW dies. One poster suggested polishing out the sizing area of the die bodies a few thousands of an inch. That might be just the ticket.

    Before you go to that extreme, try a little sizing lube on a few dozen hull bases. If you don't have any, a high lanolin bar soap will work. The idea is you want to determine if hull (steel base) friction is resulting in too much force being applied to the finished shell to knock it out of the die.

    If the lubed up hulls work just fine then consider the die polishing or change to loading only brass head hulls or size the GC hulls in a MEC before you load them on the PW.
  17. Stl Flyn

    Stl Flyn Active Member

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    Soup,

    Take a look at these photos. The TGT12 is for 1oz. only, thus the longer fig. 8 section. The TGT12S is going to be closer to the standard Fig. 8 on the right. The lead level is going to make the difference of whether or not the crimp pushes down or not. Not how close the pedals are to the crimp. Being that it is an inconsistant problem would indicate to me that it is the resistance of certain shells that are being ejected from the sizing tubes on the reloading disk. Being that you are using the Automate II you are not able to feel the difference of that resistance, and the ejection rod is pushing in the crimp on the shells that have a slightly wider base. The dished shell is loaded with 1 oz. of lead and the 1 1/8 oz. Fig. 8 wad, (White) on the right. The shell on the left is loaded with the TGT12 1 oz. wad, (Green). Get some TGT12 wads and look at the difference of the lead level in the shell before the precrimp station. The lead will be closer to the top of the crimp area.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
  18. cartucci

    cartucci Member

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    hit, how many times have reloaded the same shells? i am also having the same problem with the figure 8 wad.
  19. JerryP

    JerryP TS Member

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    Switch to AA hulls and see how that works.
  20. soup

    soup Member

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