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Discouraged son due to range rules...your thoughts

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by BD457, Dec 3, 2011.

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  1. BD457

    BD457 Member

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    As some of you know, My son (11 YEARS OLD) and I just discovered the fun of trap shooting. We decided to join the ATA together and compete for the fun of it. Teah, we have to drive 250 miles to do it one Sunday a month, but we have fun. Here's the rub: He's 11, he's been shooting for less than a year. Our first ATA shot was in October When we signed in, the shoot boss put us both as class B. I can understand that, no history, no targets, no practice results, nothing. We shot and managed to come in last and 5th from last with an 72 and an 83. I decided to keep track of our practices because.... well..... it's just a good idea, right? So with our practices and our ATA scores, we went back in November to compete again and I requested that we both be classed as D class (our overall average of 400 birds, practice and the last ATA was 72 and 88) The response I got was: "You've heard of sandbagging haven't you? without 500 registered targets, we put everybody into B class".

    Okay......I could understand that for me. A 54 year old who's obviously trying to teach my 11 year old son how to cheat and walk away with trophys, but to put him in a class where he would have to score a 99 to tie is just stupid. To infer that an 11 year old is sandbagging is downright irresponsible. He's thinking of just giving up the ATA because he has no chance of even placing. The range doesn't have a subjunior class so he's competing with 15 and under in B class.......come on.

    Do I show up at the next ATA and put my foot down for him and say put him in D class or we're walking? do I suck it up and just spend $1,000 to shoot birds until we have 500 registered targets? I'm afraid if we go back and he's put in B class again where even if he shot a 95 he's completely out of the running he'll not want to compete again. Me..... I don't care. It would be nice to actually be in a competition, but I'm in it for the boy.

    your thoughts. Am I just whinning?
     
  2. Hivoltfl

    Hivoltfl Member

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    Your mandatory targets must be registered targets, your practice targets do not count, I think your range boss was a little out of line IMOP. you and your son may very well have to shoot penalty class for 16 yard and doubles and yardage in handicap, bite the bullett and do not let one shoot ruin a great thing you have started with your son, I and many others applaude your efforts and we need you and more like you in our sport.

    Stay after them targets and break them all.....

    Rick
     
  3. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    You're driving 250 miles and getting classified there? Do you not have a local range to shoot at to get classified? I would think if the local range knew your son from shooting there they would have an idea of his "known ability".
     
  4. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    BD, post your local area and some of the ATA members in the area may be able to help you and your son out a bit. That clubs classifier isn't real good with using verbal skills or knowing all the rules or it wouldn't take him much more than a heartbeat to tell the differences he's so worried about! Your son will thank you many times over if you go about this the correct way, from the start.

    Hap
     
  5. The Literalist

    The Literalist Well-Known Member

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    Brian, you're classified at each shoot you attend. You don't get classified at one and carry that to the other.
     
  6. The Literalist

    The Literalist Well-Known Member

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    BD, I think you're missing a big point here. If your son is a brand new shooter (and 11 years old)...how realistic is it to think He's already competitive shooting a 72...whatever the class?

    Your first thousand birds should simply be learning the game, meeting other shooters, and improving. Unless he's the only one in D class, a 70-something won't be competitive.

    Practice, practice, practice, shoot a lot of targets, get consistently in the 90s...THEN "compete." The fun should be in learning at this point, not driven to "win."

    You don't win ANY competition after a couple of events, whether it's golf, tennis, tiddly winks or trap.
     
  7. likes-to-shoot

    likes-to-shoot Well-Known Member

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    This is a perfect opportunity to teach your son that rules are for everyone and just because they don't always work in your favor to not get discouraged. A person needs to work for what they want and one of the rewards is he will feel better when it is accomplished. Look around the country now and all you see is people wanting the rules changed in their favor.
     
  8. jbmi

    jbmi Well-Known Member

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    Your classifier is a real dick-head, at a small local shoot he can classify anyway he wants, someone needs to speak with this fool.
     
  9. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    The Literalist, quote: <i>"Brian, you're classified at each shoot you attend. You don't get classified at one and carry that to the other."</i>

    I don't understand. How does this prevent someone in, say, C class from being arbitrarily upped to B or A at the whim of a local club?
     
  10. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Since when do you have to have 500 registered targets to have a true classification? You should be classified on your average at the second shoot, which would be your first 100 registered score. Thereafter, your average should determine your class.

    Someone is certainly overestimating their importance here. And showing a lack of common sense, to boot.

    HM
     
  11. TEXASZEPHYR

    TEXASZEPHYR Member

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    At 11 years old he's a sub jr. There is no reason that he should have to shoot as a jr. It would probably get him a trophy if no other sub jr's are shooting, and that may be a shallow win, but they have to let him compete as a s. jr if that is what he is. To not allow him as a s. jr. would be the same as making the sr vets shoot with the vets, and you can bet that wouldn't fly. Even better yet, maybe he knows some other kids that are his age that shoot and would go with you to the registered shoots. Then the "B" classification wouldn't seem so unfair.

    Bob
     
  12. The Literalist

    The Literalist Well-Known Member

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    Brian D'Oregon...In truth, that can happen. I'll PM you.
     
  13. happytrapper

    happytrapper TS Member

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    A 11 YEAR OLD CAN BE A SANDBAGGER AS WELL AS A 50 YEAR OLD. Teach your boy to follow the rules as we all do. Sound like he might be a spoiled brat wanting things his way. Can't have your way all the time.
     
  14. V10

    V10 Well-Known Member

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    Rule Book, Section IV, J, Paragraph 7 (second sub paragraph)(page 19):

    "When there is no Sub-Junior trophy Sub-Juniors will be included in the Junior category. Senior veterans will be included in the Veteran category when there is no Senior Veteran trophy."
     
  15. Norsky

    Norsky Member

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    Happytrapper,
    Calling someone you don't know, or have never met, a spoiled brat is one of the most inane comments I have read on this site. Furthermore, accusing an eleven year old of sandbagging on his first time shooting is assinine.
    Ray
     
  16. BD457

    BD457 Member

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    I have no problem toughing it out. I KNOW I'm not good enough to "compete" and so does my son. I DO have to drive that far because there are no ATA ranges locally. I drive to register targets to get an average so we can "Compete" it doesn't matter if we win or lose, it's the competition I'm interested in. He needs to learn to be comfortable at the shoots. Both times I've asked to have him classified as a sub junior, but they say there is no sub junior class at this shoot so he has to shoot for the junior class trophy.

    The range is the closest one to me in San Diego (not ready to name names). He really, REALLY likes the range and shooting there, and so do I, he's just discouraged that he's competing for nothing and knows it. I understand "Get better, practice a lot and THEN compete", but THEN we have no registered targets and no experience competing. He knows it would be a shallow win to compete with one or two other sub juniors, and actually said he wouldn't want the trophy (even though, I KNOW he would).

    Likes-to-shoot: Nobody is asking for rules to be bent or changed in our favor. The rules are pretty clear as posted above. What we'd like is an honest classification, not a glaring eye that we could be a dreaded sandbagger. My kid knows full well that rules don't change just because the lace on his ice skate was untied. He's a responsable competitor, I've taught him that. He's also aware of the rules and he's saying to me that he's not being treated like the others. He has an average. We've been keeping it.

    Bryanf: That's the rule I quoted and had all our averages and even an overall ready to show 'em, but their "policy" to eliminate the possibality of sandbagger (like my 11 year old) was to classify everybody as B until they had 500 REGISTERED targets". (I'm actually getting angryier the more I ramble about this)


    I'm going to go bust some birds and calm down a bit. Be back later.
     
  17. OldGoat

    OldGoat Well-Known Member

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    Welcome to the sport of trapshooting. Regards, Ed
     
  18. BD457

    BD457 Member

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    Happytrapper,
    If you said that to my face you'd be on the ground bleeding. To make a remark like that about my son of whom you've never met requires an appology. It also shows large scale disrespect for me as a father.
     
  19. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Why does it matter? Assuming the right age group?

    He shoots his best. You dont teach him to shoot for a class.

    I am sure that he doesnt care if you dont point it out to him

    One target at a time- instant reward

    At the end of the day if this score is good- as in as well as he can do- or maybe even better than he has done before from time to time- he is rewarded

    His reward comes from his own satisfaction and probably your approval as well

    Dont shortchange the kid in life and tell him that it is all about winning a trophy- it isnt

    My thoughts

    Regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
  20. rustygun

    rustygun Member

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    Bd457,
    People like Happy Trapper are why trapshooting is such a growing sport.
     
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