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dimpled primers, factory loads not firing? (fixed)

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by bonzai272, Aug 26, 2012.

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  1. bonzai272

    bonzai272 Member

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    Ive got a Winchester Super X-1 semi-auto and today at a shoot I had 2 out of 100 factory federal gold medal loads fail to fire. the primers were dimpled but they did not ignite. Would this be a gun issue or ammo issue? If gun issue, what could it be, perhaps the firing pin spring? Im sure the spring has never been changed. If it should be changed, is this something I can do myself or does it require special gunsmithing tools? Thanks for the help guys.

    Matt
     
  2. Ross

    Ross Well-Known Member

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    Your super X-1 is a very dependable gun so I would 1st suspect a primer set a little too deep, 2nd would be a weak hammer spring not a firing pin spring, 3rd (unlikely) but possible, bolt not going completely "home" because of a slightly oversized hull, or maybe a little dirty, yes even with new factory ammo. Keep it clean to eliminate that possibility. I doubt that you have a very serious problem. Good Luck and I'm sure someone with more experience than me will have good suggestions. Ross Puls
     
  3. Oregunner

    Oregunner Well-Known Member

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    I always try them again, or in a different gun. If they still don't go off, it's probably an ammo issue. Federal primers are more rounded than some, but that usually is an issue with the lower barrel of an O/U, that has a firing pin that is coming forward at an angle. Mark
     
  4. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    Pull your bolt and check it carefully for cracks or broken pieces...
     
  5. bonzai272

    bonzai272 Member

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    Thanks for the tips guys. Ill check the bolt and maybe consider the hammer spring. I forgot to mention that the dimpled shells did work fine in a different gun.
     
  6. Ross

    Ross Well-Known Member

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    Given that they fired in a different gun still leads me to think either deep set primer or weak hammer spring, as per BigM-Perazzi check your bolt closely as possibly the pin could be "dragging" a little. Ross
     
  7. YOTESLAYER

    YOTESLAYER Member

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    I have a fellow shooter who has this problem with Estate shells in his Cynergy, but fire fine in my SX-3. Only difference in the shells appears to be the depth of the primer.
     
  8. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    If it's happening on factory ammo, and they fire fine in another gun, that leads you away from the ammo and more toward the gun. Firing pin hole in bolt gunked up with crap, Hammer spring, FP spring, all possibilities.


    You didn't mention if it's a release trigger, or other type of aftermarket Timney pull trigger or similar. These aftermarket triggers usually have all kinds of cool screw adjustments you don't have available on an OEM trigger. If it's an aftermarket trigger, then check to see if any of the screw adjustments are resulting in a setting where the sear rubs the hammer just a bit as it falls and "robs" a little momentum (overtravel screw set too tight, etc...there needs to be a little bit of slack on the overtravel, so the sear won't rub the hammer as it falls...not only does this give ignition problems, but can eventually ruin the trigger job if used that way for a long time).


    Ask yourself what has changed since it worked well. Trigger adjustments are a common culprit. But if a good detail cleaning of the breech area and setting all trigger screws to nominal position doesn't fix the problem, and the springs are in good shape, you'll need the Winchester doctor, which there are a few.
     
  9. bonzai272

    bonzai272 Member

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    Ok thanks again for all the tips. Ill pull the bolt out to inspect it. I will also give it a good cleaning and blast the firing pin hole to clear any gunk. If that still doesnt resolve it, Ill consider a new hammer spring.

    Sorry I didnt mention the trigger. This is the original pull trigger, no modifications.

    Nothing has changed since it worked well, so maybe I just need to clean it real well and blast out the firing pin hole.

    One thing Ross mentioned was the bolt not going completely "home" (forward). This got me thinking. Since we were shooting with the voice command system, I was not letting the bolt slam forward on its own for fear of setting off targets unintentionally. What I would do is hold the bolt handle with one hand and press the bolt release with the other. Then I would slowly guide the bolt forward to prevent any noise that could trigger a target. Could this be the issue? Perhaps by doing this I was not letting the bolt go all the way forward as it should?
     
  10. Oregunner

    Oregunner Well-Known Member

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    If you were shooting with Canterbery speakers, they have a 2 second built in delay after a target has been thrown. Close your bolt in less than 2 seconds after a shot has been fired, usually the shooter just to your left, and you won't set off another target. You have to load a shell in the open receiver beforehand, so you are ready to close it in a timely manner. Mark
     
  11. Ross

    Ross Well-Known Member

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    bonzia272--I see (when I'm the scorekeeper) several semi-auto shooters do that same thing for the same reason (GOOD for you) they usually just give the bolt handle a little bump with the butt of their hand just as part of raising their gun, might be worth a try. I've not shot a semi-auto very much as I'm a Rem. M31 fan. Those superX-1s are very good guns so I doubt it's anything major. Ross
     
  12. 687_SP_II

    687_SP_II TS Member

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    Check your firing pin. I had the same problem in my SX-1. It was a broken firing pin.
     
  13. bonzai272

    bonzai272 Member

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    Alright guys, I think I have plenty of things to check this week. I did a little research over at shotgunworld, and between here and there, Im sure I can get it resolved. Im going to remove the bolt, make sure the firing pin and spring are in good shape, and make sure the firing pin hole is clean so the pin isnt dragging. Then Im going to install a new hammer spring. I have to place an order from Nu-Line anyway, so Im just going to add a hammer spring to the order. What Ive learned is that these guns came with a double springed hammer (one spring fits inside the other). The recommendation is to swap the double springs for a single, stronger spring (from Wrights or Nu-Line). Between the new hammer spring and cleaning the bolt, Im sure it will resolve. Ill post the outcome later. Thanks again!

    Matt
     
  14. bonzai272

    bonzai272 Member

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    I found the problem! This is my firing pin spring. Hard to believe this gun still only misfired twice out of 100 rounds on Sunday, and I still broke 98 of them targets with it. Time for a new spring. Thanks all!


    [​IMG]
     
  15. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    There ya go!!!
     
  16. Ross

    Ross Well-Known Member

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    Glad you found the culprit, looks like I was barking up the wrong tree. Ross
     
  17. bonzai272

    bonzai272 Member

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    No worries Ross. Im going to replace the double hammer spring with a new single spring anyway (just in case), since its cheap and im already going to need a new firing pin spring as it is.
     
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