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Diffusion Choke for the 1st shot at Doubles?

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by ink ball, Dec 3, 2007.

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  1. ink ball

    ink ball Member

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    Anyone using Diffusion choke for the first shot at Trap Doubles? I've been using a skeet choke and been reasonably happy with the results, but thinking of experimenting with a Diffusion choke. I'd be curious to hear what others have observed using this choke for the first shot at doubles.

    Gary
     
  2. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Two questions:

    1) What's a diffusion choke?

    2) How do you _know_ a diffusion choke does what you think it does?

    I've never found that modified or more open worked as well a IM or full for the first shot in doubles, and, with 150,000 registered doubles, I've given the open ones plenty of chances to show their stuff. There just wasn't any advantage for me, but I'm a slower shooter than many.

    A little time spent at the linked site above will tell you that you need something around 80% pattern efficiency at the distance you break the target at to insure a kill. If your diffusion choke will give you that (and that's easy to check; just shoot a couple of patterns with it at your expected distance and count the holes) then that's a good choice. If it won't, then it's not.





    Neil
     
  3. Easystreet

    Easystreet Well-Known Member

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    From what I've heard and read from those people who have actually patterned the "Diffusion" chokes, they pattern somewhere between a Skeet and Improved Cylinder choke. That's a decent choice for close to medium range sporting clays targets, but it might be a little too open for the first shot of top level doubles trap competition. However, for the "Average Joe" just shooting some doubles for fun, it should work well for the first target. Once you get serious about shooting doubles, you'll probably want something a bit tighter for the first target.
     
  4. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    I shoot 7 1/2's with SK and IMOD for dubs with 24 gram Bunker loads. I get great breaks on both birds. I will say I shoot a little quicker than the average shooter.
     
  5. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    Dear BigBore

    I get serious smoke with the SK choke and 7 1/2's on the first bird. I would have no problem using less shot, at least on the first dubs target and 16's. I would use 8's, but only have 7 1/2 and 9 shot. I might try nines on the first dubs target, if I can remember to take some to the club.

    Truth is, I am too lazy to develop a load with 3/4 oz.
     
  6. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    I remember an earlier thread when a CA shooter asked about doubles chokes and I suggested that the average shot by each adviser should be counted as pert of the data, but she was not interested. I couldn't understand that. It seems to me that the quality of the advice is directly related to the scores that result from it.

    So, shooting coach, my doubles average for most years (but not last year) has put me in AA. Yours?

    Neil
     
  7. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Very often, an open choke does not result in a larger pattern. It may simply move some shot from the center to the outer ring but the pattern size remains relatively constant.

    Neil- There is a book somewhere that advises against coveting things that others have but I am still envious of your 150,000 doubles targets. I should get my 100,000 doubles in about 1.5 more years. Would you consider slowing down so I can catch you?

    Pat Ireland
     
  8. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Not a chance, Pat. I'm shooting better doubles than I ever have in my life and I intend to ride this wave as long as it will support me. Singles as well, now that I think about it. I'm covetous of any handicap average over about 75, but that's another story.

    My secret, if there is such a thing, is that I'm still having as much fun shooting as I did in 1982 when I started. And I'm able to have this fun because I've spent serious time and effort making sure my guns shoot where I think they do, my chokes do what I think they do, and the same goes for shells.

    I think it's neat that ink ball, who started this tread, is interested in chokes. But this is no place to find out about them; Shotgun Sports is no place; Sporting Clays Magazine is no place. The only way for a shooter to find out what is chokes are doing is to find out what they are doing. That, and you can't go wrong by going tighter until you get to about full.

    Neil
     
  9. code5coupe

    code5coupe Member

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    No matter what the purveyors of "Diffusion" chokes may tell you, one cannot open an effective pattern up more than a CYL choke does.
    Oh, you may be able to get a few more "flyers" outside of the pattern with a diffusion choke, but that's it.
    I don't see that anything more open than SKEET choking would be useful on the first shot of doubles, since I doubt that few shooters can take the first bird inside of 20 yards on a consisent basis. (4 yards out of the house)
     
  10. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Earl, that's why I asked "2) How do you _know_ a diffusion choke does what you think it does?" Has anyone ever tested one of these?

    Neil
     
  11. Yuman

    Yuman TS Member

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    Shawn, I think you are on track. I am shooting AAA doubles and it has taken me a long time to get there. I have shot skeet and modified as well as imp. modified and full and all other combos out there. I was real fast and it was fun, but I didn't get to above 97% until I slowed down some and tightened up the chokes. My gun is Wilkinson choked and bored, and is about 20 and 30.
     
  12. 682LINY

    682LINY Member

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    lets face it ,,,trap shooters must play,,,,with guns,loads,chokes,barrels,hold points,glasses,vests,ways to stand,,,,if you took that away ,,,the D shooters would have nothing,,,,,the AA-AAA shooters know what works,,,and guess what they play too,,,,when I want to work a first shot new wonder load,,,,I lock the trap,,,,load two shells ,,,thro one target,,,take first shot,,,,break biggist piece with second shot,,,,,when I get a load that does not allow a second shot ( just dust),,,I use it till I have to play again
     
  13. YODA100

    YODA100 TS Member

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    Diffusion conjurs up a condition that I would not think you are looking for. I think of diffusion as a scattering, randomly, of shot pellets. I would think that a more open choke which would distribute the shot in a more even but larger pattern is what you seek. Many doubles shooters shoot a .015 choke or less for the first bang.

    I am with Neil. I have never encountered a choke which was sold as a "diffusion" choke.
     
  14. Mike Michalski

    Mike Michalski Member

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    Simone, Have your gun fit checked by someone who really knows what they are doing. Pattern both barrels.
     
  15. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    If you shoot the targets slow use tight chokes. If you shoot the targets fast use open ckokes. HMB
     
  16. Dickgshot

    Dickgshot Well-Known Member

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    I have patterned a diffusion choke and Easystreet is correct about it being between skeet and IC. I never did understand the purpose of a diffusion choke, since the most open choke would be a negative choke or cylinder choke.
     
  17. KelleyPLK

    KelleyPLK TS Member

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    As soon as you figure out how to shoot perfect Doubles please writ the book . It will sell like its onfire !!!!!!!!




    Pat Kelley still trying but not well enough !
     
  18. Hauser

    Hauser Member

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    I would focus on shooting a light load vs a more wide open choke. I believe reducing the recoil on the first shot is more important than hoping to pick up an occasional bird with a more open choke.


    Remington use to and maybe still does make a 2 1/2 dram 1 1/8 load (STS12LR) at 1100 fps that works well.


    Jerry Hauser
     
  19. Gary Waalkes

    Gary Waalkes Well-Known Member

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    I am not on the same skill level as many here but one day I will be. My doubles average is only 90 but I continue to work at improving it. I have gotten past the choke thing because it never bought me a target. I shoot a browning citori for doubles and I never patterned my gun but I have tried the diffusion choke in for the first shot of doubles. Did not improve anything - perhaps things were worse. I have since discovered that the first bird was mine to miss and that a full choke broke them just fine. (and as my friend from Pa has drilled into me - YOU KNOW WHERE THEY ARE GOING TO BE). So my opinion is that learning how to shoot is more important than choke selection.
     
  20. Little Dog

    Little Dog TS Member

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    I wasted some money on Briley's diffusion choke and soon discovered that it shot the exact same pattern percentage as my skeet choke and was nothing but a plastic magnet. What a bitch to clean!- it's now retired.
     
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