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Different Shot brands dropping Different weights

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by DTrykow, Oct 4, 2012.

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  1. DTrykow

    DTrykow Active Member

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    Just thought I'd share some results. I had time to fiddle with different shot brands to look at 7 1/2, 1 1/8oz shot weights. I'm using a Spolar Loader w/Spolar bushing for 1 1/8oz which is 492gr. Averaged 15 drops per brand. Here are the results. An old bag of "All American" Hard averaged 510gr; "West Coast" was 498gr., "Lawrence" was 493gr., and "Eagle Magnum" was 526gr. So what am I looking at? Antimony? The higher the number the softer it is? Does it matter if the load is heavier? Spolar said Volume is volume that's that. My Dillon had an adjustable shot bar and I'd just match the brand with the drop weight. Thanks, Dave T.
     
  2. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    You should also measure the size of the shot. The larger the diameter the lower the shot drop weight. HMB
     
  3. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    In my experience, eagle is 1/4 to 1/2 size smaller than the bag states.
     
  4. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    The difference could easily be no more that the makeup of the metals used to make the shot. I battled that oddity once between my usual shot used and some sent by a buddy for me to sample. His formula was simply not the same as the factory stuff which I figured out after changing all my adjustments......breakemall
     
  5. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    I do not believe a 1 or 2 % change in the antimony level would affect weight.

    You have a size problem.

    HM
     
  6. DTrykow

    DTrykow Active Member

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    Just thought I'd share some results. I had time to fiddle with different shot brands to look at 7 1/2, 1 1/8oz shot weights. I'm using a Spolar Loader w/Spolar bushing for 1 1/8oz which is 492gr. Averaged 15 drops per brand. Here are the results. An old bag of "All American" Hard averaged 510gr; "West Coast" was 498gr., "Lawrence" was 493gr., and "Eagle Magnum" was 526gr. So what am I looking at? Antimony? The higher the number the softer it is? Does it matter if the load is heavier? Spolar said Volume is volume that's that. My Dillon had an adjustable shot bar and I'd just match the brand with the drop weight. Thanks, Dave T.
     
  7. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    You should also measure the size of the shot. The larger the diameter the lower the shot drop weight. HMB
     
  8. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    In my experience, eagle is 1/4 to 1/2 size smaller than the bag states.
     
  9. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    The difference could easily be no more that the makeup of the metals used to make the shot. I battled that oddity once between my usual shot used and some sent by a buddy for me to sample. His formula was simply not the same as the factory stuff which I figured out after changing all my adjustments......breakemall
     
  10. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    I do not believe a 1 or 2 % change in the antimony level would affect weight.

    You have a size problem.

    HM
     
  11. oskerspap12

    oskerspap12 Active Member

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    Yes it would!
     
  12. claybrdr

    claybrdr Well-Known Member

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    The more antimony the lighter the shot.
     
  13. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    Well, ones not legal ATA..
     
  14. DTrykow

    DTrykow Active Member

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    Correct BigM: ATA allows +3% over 1 1/8oz which is 507gr. Dave T.
     
  15. Avaldes

    Avaldes Well-Known Member

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    Ok, a little math might help. The densiy of Lead is 11.36 grams/cubic cm. Antimony is 5.2 g/cubic cm. Which means that lead is 2.18 times heavier than Antimony.

    Now in 500 grains of shot (roughly 1 1/8 oz), good hard magnum shot Like West Coast or Remington is 6% antimony. Meaning there is 30 grains of Antimony in that load. If the shot is softer, it may have 3% Antimony, or 15 grains. The remaining 15 grains is now replaced by lead at 2.18 times the density. So that 15 grains that was formerly Antimony now weights 2.18*15 = 32.7 grains.

    The end result is that the weight of a shot charge thrown from the same bushing that gave you 500 grains with magnum shot will give you 517.7 grains, using soft shot!!

    I would not have believed there is that much effect! I had always chocked up the difference in weight to the packing factor associated with variation in shot size. But I think there is something to this hardness/softness deal. It does jive with my experimental results.

    I have loaded Rem STS (6%), Curry Magnum (6%) and Eclipse XXX magnum (supposedly 8%) and they all throw right at 492 or so grains in my bushing. West coast is a couple grains heavier at around 496. Northwest is over 510 and some old Grafs that is 3% is over 510 too. I have to use a smaller bushing for those softer leads and use them for practice, saving the hard stuff for registered.

    Hope that might help.

    -Aaron

    PS- If you cut open Nitro 27, AA Silver Bullets or Gold Medals, you will find that they average around 500+ grains of shot. Maybe 10-15 more pellets than hand loads that drop right at 492. This might explain the perception that factories shoot better than reloads...they have more shot!!
     
  16. Star4Ever

    Star4Ever Member

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    Nice Post Aaron! Good Job.

    I have found that different bags of shot from the same maker can have some small variances. I suspect that the lead-antimony "Mix" must have some variances in the shot pouring process. Having cast lead bullets for pistol shooting, I know that keeping the mix stirred, and well fluxed and free of dross is important. Some of the metals in the mix can and will separate over time if not agitated. I suspect these small variances are totally acceptable and could be just one or two BB's short or long in the throw as well.
     
  17. rsikole

    rsikole Member

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    Aaron's post above explains pretty well. Assuming you are getting consistent volumes of shot dropped, there are only three major sources of variation in shot weight dropped.

    1. Metal density, which is related to composition.

    2. Average shot size variation. Larger shot will have more air space in a given volume, ultimately dropping less weight of shot.

    3. Variation in shape of shot. This simply adds variation. It would be difficult to say it always (statistically) changes the weight (increases OR decreases) in the same manner.

    I bet we would all be surprised to see the variation in shot and powder charges across a series of production lots on AA, STS, or Gold Medal "premium" loads. I have chronographed reloads as well as "premium" factory loads, and seen similar variation (around +/- 20 FPS or a range of 40 FPS) on both.

    You can't assess how much "variation" is due to chronograph or measurement error and how much is true product variation because you can't shoot and measure the same shell repeatedly. However, using the same chronograph and test methods I get similar variation when I measure new "premium" loads vs my own reloads.


    Just some more food for thought....


    Rob
     
  18. Firewater

    Firewater Member

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    Avaldes, Does that mean that that magnum shot is faster with the same bushing,or if you have an adjustable bar does 1 1/8 oz magnum shot have more pellets? Mike
     
  19. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    I don't know about being faster, but chilled shot would have more energy than magnum shot of the same size.

    Mec charge bars are drilled out for chilled shot, so a 1-1/8 charge bar with magnum shot, will drop about 1-1/16 ounce or less (same number of pellets). So yes, an adjustable charge bar set at 1-1/8 ounce for magnum shot will drop more pellets than a 1-1/8 ounce Mec bar with chilled shot. Hope that makes sense.

    Wayne
     
  20. Scott Johnson

    Scott Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Aaron, you are right on the money, great job, my findings exactly. Chilled shot may have more energy than magnum shot but if a higher percent of the pellets of chilled get damaged going through the gun and are not in the pattern what good does it do you at 27 yards? Singles and doubles, use whatever, long handicap, use hard shot for dense patterns. YMMV Scott
     
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