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Difference in Recoil

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by jerryw, Nov 6, 2008.

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  1. jerryw

    jerryw TS Member

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    Which load would produce more recoil 1 oz. at 1200 fps, or 1 1/8 at 1145 fps?

    Thanks

    Jerry Walker
     
  2. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    Jerry, the amount of powder in the shell is a factor in calculating recoil.

    Using 16.9gr e3 for a 1oz load with my components yields 1200fps with 13.70 ft/lb of recoil in my gun.

    16.5gr of e3 produces an 1145fps load with 15.16 ft/lb of recoil.
     
  3. widomaker

    widomaker TS Member

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    Its been a while since I have been in school but according to the laws of Sr. Issac Newton every action has and equal and opposite reaction. When you pull the trigger the expanding gasses propel the the shot and wad up the barrel and out of the gun. The opposite reaction to that would be recoil. Now with that said if I remember again correctly my physics class f=ma which is Force= Mass*Acceleration. Now if you increase the mass or the acceleration the Force and of course the equal and opposite reaction Recoil should in theory increase proportionally. Now using Grecoils and other types or recoil reducers either damp distribute slow down or otherwise reduce the felt recoil but the recoil according to Mr. Newton is equal to the action of the chambered shell and shot leaving the chamber.
     
  4. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Jerry- I will give you a quick way to compare recoil. Simply take the weight of the shot and multiply it by the velocity.

    This method is not as accurate as other techniques, but it gives fairly good comparative data.

    1 oz X 1200 ft/sec = 1200 ft/sec/oz
    1.125 oz X 1145 ft/sec = 1288 ft/sec/oz

    The 1 1/8 oz load will generate more recoil.

    If you wish, you may call this method "Pat's Quickie Way".

    Pat Ireland
     
  5. highflyer

    highflyer TS Member

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    Unless you give a big boost in velocity more shot will usually give you more recoil. I think it is something like 200 feet per second to equal 1/8 ounce of shot in recoil.
     
  6. widomaker

    widomaker TS Member

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    Pat:

    Tell me if I'm out of line here but isn't "Pat's Quickie Way" F=MA ?? According to Mr. Newton ?
     
  7. jerryw

    jerryw TS Member

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    Thanks guys I have been shooting 1 oz. 1200 fps loads for years and was just messing around and loaded up some 1 1/8 oz.1145 fps loads and shot them last weekend and I sure thought I could tell there was more recoil in them. But I thought it might just be in my head (theres not much else up there.) LOL

    Pat your "Quickie" method works for me.

    Jerry Walker
     
  8. widomaker

    widomaker TS Member

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    Now see I spent all that money on college went to class didn't spend it all on beer and blondes and all I needed to know was "Pat's quickie way". Go figure. Pat where were you when they were doing quarks electron clouds vectors and crap like that when I needed ya.

    Just kidding
     
  9. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    It is actually M(V)**2 for both the shot and the gun. AKA - kinetic energy. That is; Mass shot x vel shot x vel shot = mass gun x recoil vel gun x recoil vel gun.

    The 1 Oz 1,200 FpS load genetates significantly less recoil than the 1 1/8 Oz @ 1,145 FpS load.

    But rather than waste your time with the technicalities, you be the judge. Shoot them both on the same day in the same gun and you should be able to tell the difference in recoil levels. BTW I shoot 1 Oz shells for this exact reason.
     
  10. BILL GRILL

    BILL GRILL Well-Known Member

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    PHEW glad we got that figured out. Obviously a couple of engineers here.
     
  11. Gary Waalkes

    Gary Waalkes Well-Known Member

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    Here is something you may want to bookmark.
     
  12. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    widomaker - My "quickie" is not quite the same as described by Mr. Newton. I ignore the weight of the powder and the wad. Also, my system will not accurately calculate the KE of the gun moving backward.

    All my "quickie" method will do is give a reasonably accurate relative measurement of the recoil from two different shells. The downfall of my method is that it is based on the information printed on the shell box. For some discount shells, this data is very inaccurate.

    Pat Ireland
     
  13. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes Well-Known Member

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    Pat, You are a never ending source of "questionable??" wisdom. LOL We recently received some shells at a reduced rate because the boxes had been mis-marked. I hope you were'nt using them in your calculations. WOW, that's my laugh for the day I guess. Have fun and shoot often, Bob
     
  14. widomaker

    widomaker TS Member

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    Pat:

    By Definition Kinetic Energy is:
    The kinetic energy of an object is the extra energy which it possesses due to its motion. It is defined as "the work needed to accelerate a body of a given mass from rest to its current velocity." Having gained this energy during its acceleration, the body maintains this kinetic energy unless its speed changes. Negative work of the same magnitude would be required to return the body to a state of rest from that velocity.

    Potential Energy is:
    Potential energy is converted into kinetic energy. Before the yo-yo begins its fall it has stored energy due to its position. At the top it has its maximum potential energy. As it starts to fall the potential energy begins to be changed into kinetic energy. At the bottom its potential energy has been converted into kinetic energy so that it now has its maximum kinetic energy

    What Jerryw was asking was about recoil which would be a Force created by the conversion of potential energy in the shotgun shell sitting in the chamber to Kinetic Energy by pulling the trigger releasing the potential energy of the hammer spring converting it to Kinetic Energy to the primer then in turn releasing the potential energy of the primer converting it to Kinetic energy which in turn converts the Potential Energy of the Powder to create Kinetic Energy to the wad and shot during acceleration. Now this in turn would create a Force using the same Potential Energy as described before only in an equal and opposite reaction.

    The force in this case would be felt recoil created by the conversion of Potential Energy to Kinetic Energy. Where as Force=Mass*Acceleration. Now You can also calculate the resistance of the wad against the barrel as negative work but I think it would be slight with a percent error of + - 20% to 25%.

    Now this is fun :) Let me know if I'm close here
     
  15. jerryw

    jerryw TS Member

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    Waaaaay too deep for this old man. LOL

    Jerry Walker
     
  16. Gary Waalkes

    Gary Waalkes Well-Known Member

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    Refusing to use the calculator I pointed to is really silly and talking about felt recoil is even sillier. Why not take advantage of a real formula that provides additional information?
     
  17. Irfner

    Irfner TS Member

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    For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction:

    Must mean that for every target I miss someone else is breaking one.
     
  18. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Gary- I agree with you that "Pat's Quickie" is not as accurate as the formula you referenced. But, the quickie method can be done in your head, or on the back of an envelope while standing in the isle at Dick's, and it does give a fairly accurate estimate of recoil generated by the shell.

    Pat Ireland
     
  19. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes Well-Known Member

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    Irfner, Too much,LOL. I know I'm leaving more than my share of "seed" lately, so I think someone somewhere is shooting very well I hope. Bob
     
  20. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    Factor in "Felt recoil" and after that who cares. Quit trying to make something simple complicated. Pull - bang - dead.

    Don
     
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