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Difference between Indiana and Ohio?

Discussion in 'Politics, Elections & Legislation' started by Bisi, Sep 30, 2012.

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  1. Bisi

    Bisi TS Member

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    I’ve just been looking at the latest presidential polls. They have Obama up by 10 points in Ohio, and they have Romney up by 12 points in Indiana. Wow! What a difference. A 22 point swing.

    What is the difference? The 2 states are similar geographically, both southern borders are defined by the Ohio River with Kentucky on the other side. Their northern borders have a Great Lake to the north and the State of Sh*tigan. The very southern parts of both states are forests with rolling hills, then the rest is agriculture land. Driving across the middle of both states on I70 you really couldn’t tell the difference except by the road signs.

    I would guess Ohio is cursed with more urban areas? Columbus, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Toledo. Indiana has the misfortune of Chicagoland (E. Chicago, Gary) on it’s northwest corner, and all the pestilence it brings. Indiana also has Naptown, Forth Wayne, Elkhart, and Eville urban areas. But even then why is the urban area of Indy more conservative than the urban area of Dayton, Columbus, Cleveland, Cincy?

    What’s the difference? Gotta be something in the air, water? Ohio make a pact with the devil so they can have a good football team? Driving west from Penn on I70 it's liberal until you hit Richmond, In then conservative till you hit the state of IL, another hot bed of liberalism. WTF?
     
  2. R.Kipling

    R.Kipling Well-Known Member

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    I know it's dangerous to say, but don't believe every poll you see. I'm a Buckeye by birthright and the majority of my family is still there. We were all raised union-democrat, but about 80% of us have grown up.

    You don't see 1/10th of the Nobama signs or bumper snickers today, as was evident in '08. Even the OSU campus is quiet. Unless there are a horde of closet-voters the numbers you refer to are hyped beyond any reason.

    I just read that Republican Absentee vote requests and new registrations are are running about 8 to 1. Ohio has been the home of major Demo voter fraud, but I just can't see Ohio going Demo without it this time.

    Kip
     
  3. Scott Johnson

    Scott Johnson Well-Known Member

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    R. Kipling you are a welcome breath of fresh air and common sense. Thank you for the update. Scott
     
  4. trapshootin hippie

    trapshootin hippie Well-Known Member

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    Ohio folks are known as buckeyes. What is a buckeye? Always heard it is a worthless nut.

    Gonna run and hide now, see ya later.


    GneJ
     
  5. Bisi

    Bisi TS Member

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    Still can't figure out how the 2 states east and west of the Hoosier state can be so different politically. IL can at least blame that megatroplis called Chicago.

    Last week the national polls were calling it a landslide for Ojackass. I still think it will come down to FL and Ohio. I just hope the Ohio trapshooters put their shotguns down for the next month and get off their butt and work to get Romney elected.

    You Ohio trapshooters who are still bitter about the Grand moving to Sparta can now do something to get revenge. Stick it to IL and defeat their favorite son Ojackass in this election. Who knows if Ohio goes Republican and Barack loses Rahm might order the IL governor to bulldoze Sparta. Then the Grand will be a free agent.
     
  6. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    Bisi, you ask a good question. I was born in one, now live in the other...and I struggle to put understanding to it myself.


    The best answer I've come to, is a combination of two things. First being the relative lack of Union influence in Indiana. Not to say that it doesn't exist, only that it hasn't been allowed to become predominant, the way that sort of corruption was welcomed and embraced in other states.


    Also, there aren't as many artsy-fartsy liberal-arts colleges in Indiana. Ohio has a slew of them. Religious sects moved westward in past centuries, and it seems like a lot of them didn't get much farther west than Ohio, before they dropped anchor, prayed to God on bended knee...then set up a college. Most of which became corrupted by the usual sort of social-uplift do-gooders over the years.


    You want an enjoyable afternoon Google Social Studies Project? Look up Antioch college in Yellow Springs, for an extreme example. Not to mention: Oberlin, Baldwin Wallace, Otterbein, Bluffton, Wooster, Wilberforce, Wilmington, Mount Union, Defiance, Heidelberg, Urbana, Kenyon, Denison, Cedarville, Tiffin, Hiram, Wittenberg...I'm sure I'm missing three or forty. Most were started by some or other German religious sect that moved west to find cheap land, and start a higher-learning institute to the Greater Glory of God. After a century or so of generational turnover, most just ended up being "Liberal Factories." Every one of them has employees, who stay for life and have full benefits...every one turns out graduates every year...and every one contributes to the "beehive" echo-chamber effect of "social justice" advocacy. Every time you hear some academic type talking about how "Social Justice is part of the teachings of Jesus" - and therefore it should become an enforced aspect of Government Policy - you don't have to look very far behind that by-line to find the name of somebody who draws a salary and benefits, or has some other type of Kevin Bacon six-degrees-of-separation connection, to one of the above-mentioned types of institutions.


    Fully two-thirds of my teachers through high school were educated in these places.


    You see, other states have Liberal Catholics...Ohio has Militant German-descended Protestant Enforcers of Social Justice...working to glorify the Almighty God - one government handout at a time. (I specifically leave out the more innocuous St. Xavier and U of D, the relatively tamer sort of Catholic educational counterparts who spawned nothing more dangerous than their basketball teams).





    "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may indeed be the most oppressive. The Robber Baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep; his cupidity may at some point be satiated. But those who torment us for our own good, will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their consciences."


    -C.S. Lewis



    buzz (myself destined for matriculation in one of the above-mentioned brain-washing camps, before I escaped under cover of night and ran screaming into the arms of the Hoosier state).
     
  7. Claymuncher

    Claymuncher Member

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    FIP's and FOP's

    Me thinks I also will run and hide now........

    buzz-gun : I am impressed.

    CM
     
  8. Bisi

    Bisi TS Member

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    good points buzz. I too am impressed.

    In Indiana we have the town of New Harmony. It was founded to be a socialist utopia. It's been sucking on the government grant teat for over a 100 years, to keep it going. So their God is now government. Glad most of em didn't make it this far west. LOL
     
  9. skeeljc

    skeeljc Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

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    I believe the unions in the Cleveland area are what drives the state Democratic.

    Indiana may seem Democratic but we elect a lot of Republicans.

    Jim Skeel<BR>Born a Buckeye and now a Hoosier
     
  10. over the hill

    over the hill Active Member

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    My opinion is it's the polsters.

    It was a dead heat a short time ago, now they have Obama up by 10 points. (Ohio)

    My phone has been ringing off the hook..... I don't talk to them....

    This weekend, we had some house to house polsters asking if we voted absentee ballot.

    They're doing everything then can to trash Romney.



    Regards.....Gerald
     
  11. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    oth you are correct. Recently I viewed a segment that said the polls were "weighted" to provide a realistic outcome. this was further explained saying they took the average of various groups (gays, blacks, Hispanics, women,etc) and applied it to the results of the sampling that was real.

    So 13 per cent of voters in 2008 were black. They assume it will be the same this time. (I believe this is a mistake)

    I also believe the number of young voters will be down as a percentage from 2008.

    If you do a google search on "skewed polls" you will gain knowledge.

    HM
     
  12. BT-100dc

    BT-100dc Active Member

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    I grew up outside the Dayton area and currently live in the Youngstown Warren Ohio area. It's unbelievable that politically this state is so different such as with the cities of Cleveland and Cincinnati. I am a conservative 2nd Amendment NRA voter but I'm a minority here in NE Ohio. People here still vote the straight line Democrats vote and the area has been on the decline the past 30 years and continues to still decline. They don't get it. I put a Romney sign in my front yard but have to bring it in each night as it will be stolen. I care for my 2nd Amendment rights and will therefore vote against Obama, Sherrod Brown and Tim Ryan. BT100dc
     
  13. R.Kipling

    R.Kipling Well-Known Member

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    Buzz,

    Rather eloquent, but lets make it simpler. All that's left in my Ohio are, "8 & 80's, sick, lame and crazies. And, those that directly assist, or prey on them. Ohio has been hemorrhaging youth and talent for decades. What was the money-belt, has become the rust & dust-belt.

    The unionists, public-doles and infirmed aren't going to risk loosing what they have, until it's completely gone. I believe that Ohio just went through reapportionment and lost a Fed Rep? Denis the Menace, a perennial nut-case from the Chemical-spill-belt along the lake, is now gone by the process.

    I began to see it with the advent of jet travel. Soon after, we became the fly-over land. Try as we might, we were never able to compete with the level and sophistication of Chicago's corruption. The money migration and longer-range airplanes sealed the fate.

    Add our unchecked liberal colleges with the 18 year old voter, and you get a disengaged transient electorate that votes straight-ticket, when they do vote. The old adage, "when you're young, if you don't vote Democrat, you don't have a heart. When you're old, if you don't vote Republican, you don't have a brain" is as true today as any time in your history.

    C.S. Lewis was absolutely correct, conservatives are always at disadvantage to liberals, because we prefer to be left alone with our freedom. Gramsci laid it out for the malcontents, and they have followed it well. Control the educational process, and dominate the world. Not much different than a political Madrasah at this point.

    Kip
     
  14. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    The above comment about youth talent drain is correct. Indiana and Ohio both lose their talented young 'uns at high rates...Indiana complains of it, too. But the type of drain is different in each case.


    The difference is that although the really bright ones get out, like happens in most Midwestern states, the graduates of the Ohio schools I mentioned above, don't really go anywhere. There's a perverse, one-way selectivity at work here. These are liberal arts schools, without much diversity of skills among their students. No med school, no law school, no engineering school. Those graduates don't leave and go to California to develop Killer Apps in Silicon Valley. They don't leave and go to Wall Street to be Kings of Finance, or to go to Hong Kong to train as international tycoons. In fact, they do not leave, period. The apple usually falls next to the tree, and they wind up staying in Ohio to be teachers, or work in government agencies, or nonprofits...stuff a liberal arts education qualifies you to do. The student bodies in these schools are small, but they trickle out a steady stream of average, liberal, un-ambitious kids who "accumulate" in the Buckeye state year after year...and they've been doing it for over 150 years. They ain't going anywhere.


    If Ohio would have got the balls to kick the unions in the teeth, they could have stolen away a big chunk of Michigan's auto industry jobs decades ago. But instead, they stayed in lock-step with the union pattern of their northern neighbor. This was plenty good for a long time, so long as the Big 3 were the only game in town. But when the New Reality began to dawn on American industry, and the Japanese Wave came through, it largely bypassed Ohio and settled in Indiana and Kentucky. Ohio got one Honda complex around Columbus, and that was it. It could have been much different. Ohio's proximity to Michigan, combined with a more profit-friendly business environment, could have made it the industrial super-star of the Midwest. They could have forseen the decline of the old factory-union paradigm, and positioned themselves to benefit from it; they could have cast themselves as the business-friendly alternative to Michigan and sucked the Wolverine state dry. But nobody in Columbus possessed the magnitude of vision to see that possibility coming. They were too locked in the grasp of the factory unions to see what could have been - if only they had just accepted the approaching reality, laced up their tennis shoes, and resolved to run "just a bit faster" than Michigan could run.


    Instead, Ohio lagged back, and fell right into the same gut-pile as Michigan. (Only without the benefit of all the corporate Headquarters and engineering jobs, and pretty tourist areas up north). Without the kind of higher-skill auto engineering jobs that Detroit was able to maintain, they simply watched their factory jobs head to Mexico, their tax revenues plummet, and their cities decay. A little more Appalachian version of Michigan, minus the turban-heads and gold teeth.


    The consolidated state of Mich-O-Vania now fills the map between New York and the Cheese-heads. Ohio is the white filling between two black Oreo cookies. What hasn't already oozed out, is going to get banged like a screen door. The potsmoking kids on the Antioch campus will continue to spend their parents' money on tuition at a school that doesn't even have official academic accreditation anymore. The Farmers of Ohio will continue to collect their checks from the Federal Government for leaving their fields un-planted. The city and municipal employees will retire, double-dip their compensation to the max allowable by law, and get as good as they can, as long as they can. Cities like Dayton will continue to make decisions like turning their backs on thousands of rich, fat old white trapshooters with money to spend, while expanding airports whose air traffic is dropping, and building ballparks in ghetto neighborhoods where people are afraid to go after dark. Teachers will continue to get laid off, etc., etc., etc.


    So, since Ohio has doubled-down on every type of failure imaginable, I hereby propose, as the self-appointed Charles de Gaulle of the Conservative Buckeye Diaspora, that we change the name from The Buckeye State, to: The Double-Down State.


    No wonder those OSU football players were trying to sell their jerseys. It was the last thing left of any value with Ohio still written on it.
     
  15. WoodsonEnt

    WoodsonEnt Active Member

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    Ole' Buzz is telling it like it is! Great intellect there folks. I do believe this country will be demolished if Obammy is voted in again. I just bought 15 more flats of shells that I really didn't need......trying to avoid the panic again. BUT I hope there isn't a panic.

    I found this interesting and you might as well.....my parents are in their mid 60's. They are both retired - mom taught school for 32 years, dad worked for the local telephone company for 30 years. They have quite a bit invested in Wall Street. They recently had a meeting with their financial advisor. The advisor told them that stocks would go high with Obama re-election and plummet with a Romney election. I told them to find a new financial guru!
     
  16. R.Kipling

    R.Kipling Well-Known Member

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    Buzz,

    While your observations are accurate, I believe that the finger you point is a bit under sufficient Trap POI. Having grown up in what was the rubber capital of the world, fully supporting the Motor City Moguls and their minions I have some additional insight. The picture you've painted is also applicable to about half the east & west coast states. Identical malaise, small variations in enablers.

    Too many of my brightest friends were torn between real higher education and an immediate, fat union position. Getting a 'good' secondary education in Ohio became difficult in the Wilson administration. Ohio government needed high paying jobs for the taxes they bring in. Unions became that vehicle, for a government full of former educators. "Those that can, do. Those that can't teach. Those that can't teach, teach teachers." So the adage goes.

    In the 50's & 60's college became the most convenient hideout of cowards, dopers and draft-dodgers. Now, those same retched souls are presidents and chancellors. American education has truly become the "legend of the lost and found - where the kings become the jesters, and the jesters wear the crowns".

    Kip
     
  17. trapshootin hippie

    trapshootin hippie Well-Known Member

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    I was born and raised in Yellow Springs, Ohio and attended Antioch College for a number of years. Please don't ask me for how many years, cause most of that time seems like a cloud. Or maybe it's because I was floating on a cloud. That was the good life back in the 60's. Wouldn't trade it for anything...

    GneJ
     
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