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Did end of draft cause decline in gun support ?

Discussion in 'Off Topic Threads' started by lel4866, Mar 13, 2013.

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  1. lel4866

    lel4866 Member

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    With all the various reasons being debated for the decline in support of the 2nd amendment, and loss of interest in shooting sports as well, I'm surprised I haven't seen the end of the military draft as one of the root causes.

    The military provides people with training and familiarity with many types of firearms, as well as reinforcing the fact that we have to know how to fight for our (and others) freedom.

    AT least most people, when they come out of the military, aren't afraid of firearms.

    As an aside, I much prefer a general citizen military to a professional only military. When more people know they or their loved ones may be sent to fight and risk their lives, I think they get a little more careful about who the pick as their leaders.
     
  2. yakimaman

    yakimaman Well-Known Member

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    I agree with the "citizen soldier" thought and truly feel that if our government was dragging young men and women away from their families for these wars we wouldn't be involved as we are. But, on the other hand I went into the military in 1966 when most were conscripts and stayed until 1989 and saw the differences between the old way and the all volunteer force. I don't know that our military could function with conscripts - it's so much more technical now at all levels and takes a great deal of commitment to training and learing and performing than it did during the draft era.
     
  3. dead on 4

    dead on 4 Well-Known Member

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    I've always thought they should have kept the draft in place and every young man a women should serve. A good dose of rules regulations hard work and learning to get along with others is something everyone should learn. Some my best life lessions came from being in the Army. Military service took young people out of their zip code and their comfort zone and exposed them to a larger world and they are all better for it.

    lel4866, I think you're correct in your observation on every count. Most citizens don't have clue how they got where they are and why the American flag still hoisted in this country.

    Surfer
     
  4. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    Having been a witness to the draft and its products, I can attest to the fact that the draft also created resentment and distrust for the government, the military, its weapons and its policies among many draftees. <I>"Military service took young people out of their zip code and their comfort zone and exposed them to a larger world..."</i>. That may be true, but not everyone was the better for it.

    Keller
     
  5. 9point3

    9point3 Well-Known Member

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    The U.S. Military is not supposed to be a baby sitter!


    Why would you want the give the Feds more time to brainwash our kids?
     
  6. gyrine

    gyrine TS Member

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    I can't think of anything that is good for everybody, not even antibiotics. I think for the most part it was a good thing and turned a lot of boys into responsible men. Some people just never get with the program. Would it be a good thing today? I don't know. Rich
     
  7. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    I say this bring our boys home, we cannot police the world, they have been fighting for centuries, why should we care, they don't pay us any money or give us any oil, We need our boys safe here at home.

    You cannot bring them home fast enough for me.

    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  8. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    I too think the draft was a good thing for the country (the "citizen soldier" thing) altho' I don't know if it's demise is responsible for the decline in gun support (interesting theory tho'?). I'd guess the steady decline in gun support has more to do with the steady urbanization of America.

    The only real downside of military conscription is that they always leave ways for the wealthy and influential to get out of it.

    FWIW, I was drafted in 1966 and served proudly as an Army helicopter crewcheif in Vietnam.
     
  9. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Many of my contemporaries learned about guns in the service. This was before draft card burning, et al. I think it was beneficial to 2nd amendment mindset.

    The resentment against the Government was a byproduct of the Great 60's Social Experiment, which also brought us "Don't trust anyone over 30", "make love, not war", and "If it feels good do it".

    We are now reaping the harvest of that mistake.

    HM
     
  10. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    There should be mandatory service-- whether that is the military or some alternative civilian service

    Everyone should go through the same basic training though unless you are handicapped= even then we find a job for you

    2 years active- 6 reserve

    We mix elements of society and give them a common experience and also change their view of the world- Job training is provided and how to function on your own or as a team is learned

    The right to vote is only available to those that serve

    We also find those with physical or mental illness that need treatment

    The nation benefits and we get back on the road to where we were.

    Those that havent served are afraid of this concept but it works well in a number of nations that are way ahead of us educationally and economically. Switzerland and Israel and South Korea to just name 3.

    Regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
  11. Tripod

    Tripod Well-Known Member

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    Iowa man!!
    Pluses and minuses everywhere. When I had young people working for me, the ones who had been in the military when they were young, were ready to go to work on time every day almost without exception. The others? Not so much.
     
  12. likes-to-shoot

    likes-to-shoot Well-Known Member

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    Gene, In your Soylent Green related society do you need a ID to vote?
     
  13. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    Most of the "Draftee's" in the 60's were useless except for some type of rear echelon support job..

    Curt
     
  14. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    grnberetcj ---I dont think you are anywhere close to correct and in fact you are dead wrong.

    What does that comment even have to do with this subject or anything except your individual prejudices?

    The percentage of Draftees in the Infantry and "those who volunteered for the draft" often exceeeded normal enlistees. In an infantry unit like the 82nd airborne you might have a guy with a masters degree and right next to him a guy from inner city chicago or miami and next to them people who had been in college or buisness. That certainly describes what I saw and that description made up my squad and platoon.

    Now lets look at those draftees that were in Vietnam versus other folks.

    Now looking at draftees and some of the figures from Vietnam, if you are only talking about draftees that served in the ground combat zone- a couple of sources use these numbers


    DRAFTEES VS. VOLUNTEERS...
    ? 25% (648,500) of total forces in country were draftees. (66% of U.S. armed forces members were drafted during WWII.
    ? Draftees accounted for 30.4% (17,725) of combat deaths in Vietnam.
    ? Reservists killed: 5,977
    ? National Guard: 6,140 served: 101 died.
    ? Total draftees (1965 - 73): 1,728,344.
    ? Actually served in Vietnam: 38%
    ? Marine Corps Draft: 42,633.
    ? Last man drafted: June 30, 1973.

    Regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
  15. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    Go back to your med's...

    Your stat's just proved the point!!

    No wonder people on this site view you as a fool!!

    Curt

    FEAB9
     
  16. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Good for you Aprice and bad for grnbercill again

    Then look back at WWII-- it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that that was a great generation but because we then went to a smaller percentage of the population serving- the respect for military service went down and that service was confused with the decisions of the political administrations who sent them to war.

    More veterans who serve in congress = better decisions

    More veterans in the voting public = better decisions

    Regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
  17. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

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    I was drafted, and I believe that every highschool graduate should serve two years. I told a trap boy this a couple of years ago and his response was that he would never go.

    I laughed and said, it's kids like you that need to serve as you might come back a man. He asked me, Did you want to go? I said no, but when your country calls, you go, end of story.

    He said his dad told him some people fled to Canada during the Vietnam war. I said I wish they still lived there. I have no use for cowards.
    Steve Balistreri
     
  18. sptnclays

    sptnclays Member

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    Being a little younger than most of you guys I missed the draft by one round.
    In general I think manditory service would be a good thing for all citizens. I didn't want to join because of the way the vietnam war was run and not the intent. Too many lives were lost for little gain and in the end how did things turn out? It will be the same for Libya, Afganastan and Iraq.
    We need to instill the pride back into being a American and American first not african-American or Latino. You are here love it or leave it. Like most of you it pisses me off to press 1.
     
  19. yakimaman

    yakimaman Well-Known Member

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    In 1965, when I got out of high school, I had no intention of going into military service. By February of 1966 I'd been sent for an induction physical and the reality or inevitability of it set in. I pestered my AF recruiter to death and managed to get into an AF 4 year enlistment rather than take my chances with being drafted into the Army. I ended up serving 23 years. The AF and the Navy were full of guys doing the same thing. But, other than my first hitch, I made that choice myself. To not go was out of the question... my father was a WWII tank commander, refusing military induction would bring disgrace to the family, just couldn't be done. Others decided that a year in prison or a change in citizenship or coming out of the closet was worth the consequences. Viet Nam was a needless, senseless waste of lives and it started the counterculture that has,in my opinion, destroyed the hero of my youth.... my country, my flag. But, I have two sons; one is a veteran, one isn't. I would never and I mean never be willing to sacrifice their lives or your sons (and now daughters) lives in "blind obedience" to the nation. If we're to do this again, if we're to drag young men and women from their homes and force them into military servitude, force them to risk their lives, sacrifice their lives, it had better be for more than the Viet Nams, the Iraqs, the Afghanistans. Even then, you'd have a revolution on your hands. And, unless you just need cannon fodder, it wouldn't work. Today's military is far too technical to be full of people who don't want to be there.
     
  20. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    ..........theirs not to ask the reason why, ........

    reminds me of the scene from Lawrence of Arabia, don't remember the exact lines but essentially that....war is waged by idealistic young men, the peace is negotiated by cynical old men.
     
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