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DEP Violation

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by rick resko, Jun 5, 2009.

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  1. rick resko

    rick resko TS Member

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    Our sportsmans club located in Northern Cambria County Pa. recieved a letter from the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection this week. They advised us that we are in violation of the Solid Waste Management Act and the Hazardous Waste Management Act. It seems they do not like the fact that we are depositing lead shot and clay birds on OUR property without a permit. We have been shooting here for over 30 years. I had a feeling this would happen to us eventually. The DEP and DCNR effectively closed the 7-H skeet club, 3 miles away, a little over a year ago. That club had been in operation since 1954. I could go off about our Ahole Governor, Ed Rendell,and his anti gun adgenda but my blood pressure is high enough. Has anyone out there had to deal with a similar situation and how did it turn out. 7-H was a private club but ours is public and i am afraid that we are a "test run" and that all the clays clubs in our area are in danger. We are contacting an attorney of course. The fact is IF THEY CANT TAKE OUR GUNS THEY CAN CERTAINLY SCREW US AROUND WHERE WE USE THEM. feel free to emil me if you are familiar with our circumstances. thanks.
     
  2. Trab

    Trab TS Member

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    Yea, demorats. Don't vote for them.
     
  3. Lead Man

    Lead Man TS Member

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    Did you have a best management practices in place????? I have been preaching this for a while. It may not stop all proceedings but they will slow to a crawl. Talk to a good reclaim company, one with a few contacts in the EPA and a history of handling hazardous materials. In a last ditch effort try contacting the NRA they recommend Dick Peddicord.


    Clubs had better take heed to what is going to happen with so many anti gunners in office. The ones who stick their heads in the sand are subject to prosecution. The ones who meet it head on will most likely win.
     
  4. Fast Oil

    Fast Oil TS Member

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    http://www.rangeinfo.org/resource_library/resLibDetl.cfm?CAT=Facility%20Management&SubCat=Environmental%20Management

    All clubs should be a member of the NASR. Here are some resources. Contact them and the NSSF for help.
     
  5. Carol Lister

    Carol Lister TS Member

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    I'm curious about what attracted the Agency's attention to these clubs in the first place. Environmental agencies are overwhelmingly REactive in the way they conduct their activities: they respond to and investigate concerns brought to them by other entities and individuals; they don't have the resources to travel around the land looking for matters to deal with.

    Seeing that are 2 clubs in close proximity to each other that have attracted the attention of environmentalists leads me to the conclusion that there is something going on here besides the activities of two unremarkable clubs in the middle of a State.

    Carol Lister
     
  6. TOOLMAKER 251

    TOOLMAKER 251 Active Member

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    Rick, our club which is in Montgomery Co. had to comply with the permits a while back.
     
  7. Carol Lister

    Carol Lister TS Member

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    The NASR page is badly out of date. I see only 2 States listed under "State Agencies" and, for one of them, the link leads nowhere.

    Carol Lister
     
  8. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    This agency is interested in protecting the environment. It will help your cause if you have a plan in effect that keeps the environment clean.

    Have a plan in writing and in operation that adreesses the lead, wad and broken target problem. Have members or employees assigned to periodic cleanups of these by products of shooting. HMB
     
  9. tallpaul

    tallpaul Member

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    We had a similar problem a decade ago with an encroaching neighborhood looking to shut us down after we had been there long before the houses were built. The DEP got involved, and accused us of depositing shot into a wetland, when in fact it was standing water on ledge, with fern growth characterized as wetland fauna. Needless to say, after giving clueless lawyers around $900K, we settled with the state of Connecticut before the trial started, and we shut our 2 beautiful new skeet fields down. We have since rebuilt one new field, which sits down in a hole, and isn't nearly as nice as the previous fields. My advice to you is, get lawyers who know what they're doing. We made the mistake of staying local, and these doofuses did nothing but bleed us dry by prolonging the battle as long as they could. A good lawyer can argue that, like hunting, if the shotgun shell is being used and shot for its intended purpose, and no wetlands are involved, the lead cannot be considered hazardous waste. If this were the case, every time a shotgun was fired, that person would be in violation of environmental law. We finally got some direction from the NRA regarding legal counsel, and got a good, hard-nosed knowledgeable environmental lawyer, but by then, the horse was already out of the barn. Good luck, and don't pussy-foot around with this thing. Go big or go home...
     
  10. fssberson

    fssberson Active Member

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    At North Hollywood Sportsman's Club, we have constructed significant lead AND wad control measures and have filed our BLMP plan with the EPA. This is also why clubs need to charge enough in dues and target costs to have at least $50,000 in the bank when these folks come calling.
     
  11. Rick Barker

    Rick Barker Well-Known Member

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    The second issue of TrapshootingUSA (July/August 2009) has an article in it, "Discover the Benefits of Lead Recovery"
     
  12. Helper

    Helper TS Member

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    My apologies for resurrecting a “dead” thread, but just found it and may be able to help some. Mr. Resco, I understand your concern about possibly being part of a “test run” by DEP for other clubs. At least 3 ranges in Pennsylvania have received similar letters from DEP written a way that they could have been sent to any range in the state; nothing in the letter is specific to the activities of the range that received it, other than shooting lead.

    The US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has guidance for best management practices for lead at outdoor shooting ranges, which most states (including PA) have accepted. Lead Man referred to this guidance, and his advice is right on target. (Lead Man: keep speaking the truth on this issue so more ranges will heed it. Thanks for mentioning me in your posts here and on “What’s the Scoop on Lead” way back on May 26.)

    Lead Man is correct that the best way to reduce the chances of a range being dragged into a situation like Mr. Resco describes is good pro-active preparation. If the situation does arise, the best defense is a combination of good preparation and an environmental scientist and lawyer who both have extensive experience applying their fields specifically to outdoor shooting ranges. When similar issues have come up in other states, many have been resolved successfully. Efforts to that end are under way in Pennsylvania, and I expect them to involve more ranges before it is over.

    Dick Peddicord
     
  13. Lead Man

    Lead Man TS Member

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    This website will work better.


    For the guys and gals who don't know, Dick is one of shooting sports best friends. You don't have to take my word for it check him out. Just do a search of his name or call the NRA and ask who they recommend.

    If these ranges don't quit sticking their head in the sand hoping they won't be found it will be the end of the sport in a few yrs. Mr. Peddicord is on here offering help take him up on it. You will not be disappointed in his services.

    And for god sake get a real reclaim company not a farmer with a tractor. Cut the trees out of the drop zones and take care of business like it ought to be done. Why worry till they close you down and deem the land hazardous. Be proactive. Here's your chance.
     
  14. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

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    Dick Peddicord provided much of the techical expertise in the Naperville case back in '98-2000. While we eventually were required to acquire an NPDES permit to discharge shot in water/wetlands, I don't recall the waste management issue raising its head, except for the time we staged old pitch target debris.

    Our Parks Department continues to mantain and update our BMP. Just got a new electronic automated testing machine for outflow - $$$.

    Good Luck and regards to all - Hey Dick!

    Jay Spitz
     
  15. whiz white

    whiz white Strong Supporter of Trapshooting Banned

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    We had a similar situation at our club many years ago.

    First thing we learned was that in our shot-fall area, we did NOT want to let water stand where ducks and cattails could reside. Because the SD Dept of Game, Fish & Parks uses our facilities for Hunter Safety and other venues, and gives us quite a bit of money in grants, their people informed us of this.

    Secondly, when I was serving on the County Planning & Zoning Board, a nearby landowner made innuendos about our noise. Consequently, the Planning & Zoning Commission (I remained a neutral commissioner) voted, and put into county ordinances, that no one could hinder our operation, nor cause us to shut down through encroachment. I was amazed that the commissioners were so sportsmen friendly, but was very happy. In fact, the language specifically stated that we own all the necessary property for a safe operation, and that if a land/property-owner wanted to build nearby, then builder beware and forewarned.

    Whiz White
     
  16. grunt

    grunt TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Good advise.
     
  17. DTrykow

    DTrykow Active Member

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    tallpaul: Where in CT did this happen? I shoot at Southington Sportman's Assoc and at Rockville Fish and Game. Both clubs have had talks about making BMP's for lead management. Also both clubs have been active since 1929 with no
    lead ever removed from there ranges. Dave T.
     
  18. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    You Pennsylvania gunowners need to learn that you get the government that you vote for. It's just incredible that the state with one of the largest populations of hunters constantly votes liberal.
     
  19. rick resko

    rick resko TS Member

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    thanks to all those who offered advice and support. our club president had a long talk with a gentleman affiliated with another club who had the same problem a couple of years ago.. they are back to shooting after working things out. we also have the contact info for the attorney they retained. Brian in oregon, the thing to remember about Pennsylvania is that Pittsburgh and Philadelphia are, for the most part, the ones that carry the libs. the rest of our beautiful state is nothing more than a " fly over" for most politicians. i live in Cambria county which is 2 republicns for every democrat. hell were even a stones throw from good ole boy Jack Murtha, the biggest porky pig in politics. whiz, the fortunate thing is we have no wetland or standing water issues. i will lw=et you all know how things work out.
     
  20. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Every club should have a written lead abatement program. The key part of this program is spreading lime over the shot fall area once a year. This inhibits the formation of soluble lead carbonate.

    Pat Ireland
     
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