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Delegates and new classification rule.

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Bernie K, Sep 13, 2009.

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  1. Bernie K

    Bernie K Member

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    Gary Waalkes said that delegates were aware of the change in the classification rule. This I do not know to be true or false, but if it were true why was it a suprise to all shooters reguarding the new rule. I went to my state meeting last Sept. and heard nothing of this rule change. If my delegate did know of this change why was I not informed as to the change and my feeling toward it as well as other shooters voices? True the EX COM. is the rule maker but the vast majority of the shooters are the voice by which the ATA MUST set any rule. We complain on this site about Obama health care being pushed on to us and yet major rule changes as this get enacted without member voice. Our delegates are there to make our voices heard but we can not be heard if we do not know what is asked.
    As far as I can see this whole change is about cutting down on the amount of trophys being awarded and cutting down on the amount of shootoffs.
     
  2. Beretta687EELL

    Beretta687EELL Well-Known Member

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    IMHO, if the powers that be waited for a consensus among the shooters to rule changes, nothing would happen. A significant number of State organizations must have had a problem in this area and a rule change was made. I would hope that the rule change was made with the best interests of the organization at heart.

    I don't see that there would be a reduction in the number of trophies, but agree that there could be a reduction in the number of shoot off targets thrown, which would reduce costs.

    Two years ago the target year was changed, the members voices were heard and it was changed back. If you have a real problem with this change, you need to contact your delegate. If they get enough negative feedback, then they will likely change the rule again.

    Respectfully, Bill Malcolm
     
  3. Bernie K

    Bernie K Member

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    Bill, I understand what you are saying but you are contradicting yourself . You said if we have a problem with it contact your delegate. What is the differance in asking before the rule is made or after the rule is made, except the aggrevation to shooters in between. As far as the target year goes the majority of shooters were against that move from the start and they still voted it in.
     
  4. shotgunpeople

    shotgunpeople Active Member

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    Hi Barny,

    Excuse my southern ignorance, but what rule change are we talking about...I must have missed something and don't know what is being talked about..

    Thanks old buddy, Dave in SC
     
  5. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    I can't complain to my delegate he was only one of two who voted against it.

    Don
     
  6. glenn mcleod

    glenn mcleod Member

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    I talked to the Minnesota Delegate yesterday he said he was one of 16 that voted against it. Also at the zone meetings he said the central zone was 7 to 6 for the new rule. The rest of the zones were not even close. Glenn
     
  7. Beretta687EELL

    Beretta687EELL Well-Known Member

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    Dave, Here are two threads on the rule change ...

    http://www.trapshooters.com/cfpages/sthread.cfm?threadid=196880&Messages=101

    http://www.trapshooters.com/cfpages/sthread.cfm?threadid=197144&Messages=40

    Bernie, I don't see any contradiction in my statements, but don't talk about that with my wife (LOL). I don't know of any organizations, at least that I have been associated with, that canvas their entire membership about rule changes prior to making rule changes. People involved in making a decision on a rule change may discuss it among their circle of friends.

    I think what you are suggesting might be like a referendum. Perhaps that might be a way to go, but I think it might be very cumbersome and or costly to administer.

    The rule has been changed and at this point, again IMHO, the only way to effect a change in a different direction is through your delegate.

    Respectfully, Bill Malcolm
     
  8. X2 fan

    X2 fan Active Member

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    I do not have to talk to my Delegate about this as he has been possibly the most outspoken about it since it was introduced at the Zone Meetings at The Grand.

    Our Delegate did alert us about this proposal on our Association's website.

    From what I have heard in talking with some people who shot at the Heartland Grand is that this new rule just plain sucks as it eliminates category shooters from any chance of winning class or yardage group.

    I think this one will go the way of the target year change: Another rule change that was not thought out at all prior to enacting it that will piss off a lot of shooters for the year it will be enforced.

    Tim
     
  9. 320090T

    320090T Well-Known Member

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    Any sort of list showing who voted for and against?
     
  10. shotgunpeople

    shotgunpeople Active Member

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    Thanks Bill,

    I have had my hands full down here and had not followed what was happening...

    Thanks again, Dave
     
  11. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    I don't know of any organizations, at least that I have been associated with, that canvas their entire membership about rule changes prior to making rule changes.

    Bill, when I was a delegate,I always canvased my states shooters prior to decision making time. I also know that Pat did the same. So a few do. Ialso voted the way the majority sought....
     
  12. recurvyarcher

    recurvyarcher Well-Known Member

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    I am sure that it can be found on the ATA website somewhere, but I also would like to which delegates voted aye or nay.
     
  13. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    Would someone please give me a real life example of what is wrong with the new rule? How does it hurt some shooters?
     
  14. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    Barry:

    How about this:

    Subject: Purpose of new classification / special class rule
    From: tjwatc
    Email:
    Date: Mon, Sep 07, 2009 - 11:29 PM ET
    Website Address:

    This past weekend at the Western Grand, a sub junir shooter had the great fortune of breaking 199 / 200 in the championship singles. He was forced to take the Subjunior title INSTEAD of the B class championship under the new rule for the 2010 shooting year... It just seems wrong to watch a sub junior who shot very well, lose out on a beautiful trophy (a Shamrock bag) which he told me he wanted ... to win the Sub junior (trophy unknown, it was not a Shamrock bag) title by 8 to 10 birds.
     
  15. Don S

    Don S Member

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    Barry,

    If there is added money in place, class or yardage, SC shooters that win trophies in the SC groups are not allowed to claim or shoot off for place, class or yardage money.

    I was classified in Veteran category at the Heartland Grand. I finished tied for first in Vet class. I had to shoot off for the vet trophy. I also finished 5th in total score. Fifth in total score received a trophy and added money of $50. I would have won a trophy and $50 if I had not declared VET category. It is very important to check added money and the rules at every shoot before classifying.
     
  16. scooterbum

    scooterbum Active Member

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    870,

    Like Wild Bill said in the movie "Wild Bill", "he chose it!".

    Really folks, why would someone, capable of shooting a high score, choose to shoot in a special category?
     
  17. Beretta687EELL

    Beretta687EELL Well-Known Member

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    Martin, I'm impressed. Very proactive. Bill Malcolm
     
  18. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    Proponents of the new rule, please explain why the new rule is a good thing. Thanks for the info so far.
     
  19. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    I'm not trying to stir anything up. I just want to hear what the negative and positives the new rule offers.
     
  20. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    Longshooter:

    I don't agree with your "he chose it" excuse for accepting the new rule. That was true under the old rule where the choice of which shootoff track to take could cost you a trophy, but under the new rule it is not the category choice that costs you a target, it is shooting so good you at least tied for the trophy that costs you.

    You obviously do not agree, but when two shooters make the exact same "choices" and the one with the higher score loses, I do not believe it is valid to say the "choice" is what cost him the trophy.
     
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