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DAVE BURLET ON STOCK PITCH

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by 27-T, Jun 26, 2013.

  1. 27-T

    27-T Member

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    some time back, Dave Burlet had a thread on here about stock pitch. If my memory is correct, he said that zero pitch would reduce face slap on recoil. I assume this was for a single shot at 16's and caps.

    Dave, if your reading this, what about on your doubles gun? I would like to reduce any muzzle rise on the first shot to make it one less thing to think about before the second shot. If you would prefer, or anyone else that has any ideas, you can PM me if you do not want to post on here.

    I would appreciate any information that anyone cares to share.

    Thanks

    27-T
     
  2. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    It's Dave Berlet. See if this is what you are looking for. Dave and Brad addressing "Pitch".

    Click to watch
    <iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/poEBXc32TRM?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
  3. GW22

    GW22 Active Member

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    I always liked the way Dave says "stawlk." The dude can still shoot too.

    -Gary
     
  4. j2jake

    j2jake Well-Known Member

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    27T you may want to try a light 7/8 oz load for the first shot. Works for me and several shooters I know. You can really tell when you get them backwards. Hope this helps, Jake
     
  5. Dave Berlet

    Dave Berlet Active Member

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    27-T On singles & handicap zero pitch will help to keep you from getting bumped on the cheek bone and will generally make shooting your one target events more comfortable and enjoyable. On doubles it also lets your face stay the same place on the stock for the 2nd shot. The problem with down pitch is that the more down pitch you have the more the stock will slide up into your face on the first shot and when you try to shoot the 2nd target the stock will be slightly higher on your shoulder and your face will not be at the same position on the comb as it was for the first shot.

    For the vast majority of shooters something very close to zero pitch is the most comfortable and the most efficient setup for your butt stock. To the best of my knowledge I have never had a customer who didn't agree that bringing the stock to zero pitch helped control face bump.

    My best advice is try zero pitch and then go from there. Also bring the gun to your face, don't roll your head down onto your checkbone when you mount the gun.

    Dave Berlet
     
  6. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    I must be in the minority because for me I need enough down pitch so that the top and bottom of my recoil pad contacts my shoulder pocket at the same time. I believe you can get face slap two different ways 1) As Dave said by the pad sliding up putting the comb into your cheek and 2) by the axis of the barrel rotating upward (muzzle jump) because the toe of the pad digs into the shoulder pocket before the heel of the pad.
     
  7. 27-T

    27-T Member

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    Thanks guys. Dave, I will try your suggestion. I for one, certainly appreciate your input and the film that you made with Mr. Dysinger.

    27-T
     
  8. mike campbell

    mike campbell Active Member

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    I've been shooting clay target games and making stocks for 30 years and I've never...as in NEVER...seen a target gun with zero pitch. For that matter, the only guns I've seen with zero pitch are pre-1950 and everyone I know who has an opinion says guns with little pitch are difficult to shoot....ESPECIALLY true pairs....because the gun wants to slide down out of the pocket and under the armpit.

    IMO, pitch is of little consequence as long as it's not extreme either way. Every shotgun I own and stocked myself has 1.5-2" of pitch at 43" up from the floor. I use that point because it will be the same on every gun, from a 26" SxS to a 30" pump/auto to a 34" SBT.

    No gun can "slap" your cheek as long as you maintain firm contact between cheek and comb.

    I'd like

    1) to see a pic of a target gun with zero pitch and

    2) see what Dennis Devault has to say about pitch in the trap guns he stocks.
     
  9. Pipe Layer

    Pipe Layer Well-Known Member

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    Mike next time you go to trap shoot, if you shoot trap you will see many.I know Randy Ross shoots 0 pitch, I shoot 0 pitch and I believe Ray Stafford shoots 0 pitch if I'm not wrong, I think that's what Randy told me.Keith Heeg cut my gun to 0.
    Works fine,Kicks straight back.No face slap or movement.

    TD
     
  10. Two Dogs

    Two Dogs Well-Known Member

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    The first thing I do when I buy a new stock is make it 0 pitch, then send it to Dave Berlet for an adjustable comb...
     
  11. mike campbell

    mike campbell Active Member

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    OK, thanks. I'll be looking. Got a zone and a state championship coming up and it will give me something to do during down time.

    I'll start by checking out Chris Vendel's.
     
  12. GW22

    GW22 Active Member

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    Mike Campbell:

    Click the link for a comment from Dennis DeVault regarding negative pitch. He made it a couple months ago and I asked him about it but he did not reply.

    -Gary
     
  13. mike campbell

    mike campbell Active Member

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    Gary,

    That gun does NOT have "negative" pitch. It has a lot of pitch.


    If you stood that gun flat on the floor...short yellow line...flat on its buttpad, and slid it against the wall...long yellow line... until the top of the action touched (you'd have to take off the comb), those barrels would be "pitched" away from the wall, or down from the angle of the butt.

    Zero pitch would be represented by the white line. Notice the angle the butt would have to be cut. The toe of the stock would have be longer than the heel.

    The gun does have zero slope to the comb; better known as a parallel comb and quite common on target guns.
     
  14. lovethesport

    lovethesport Member

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    What about pitch and sporting clays....still zero ?
     
  15. GW22

    GW22 Active Member

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    Mike: Let's agree that it has quite a bit of negative pitch (i.e. downpitch). Perhaps not as much as the picture appears to show, however. Consider that this stock, like many Dennis makes, has a lot of toe-out. That makes the negative pitch look more extreme when the camera is at the receiver of the gun.

    Make sense?

    -Gary
     
  16. mike campbell

    mike campbell Active Member

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    Gary,

    No, it doesn't make sense. We're not speaking the same language and maybe others aren't either. You won't find a good definition of shotgun pitch in the dictionary, but negative pitch is not a term used by the majority when discussing stocks. Look at the pic and see if we can agree that the white line represents "zero" pitch...none. Then you'll see virtually all guns have "some" pitch....not less than zero.

    "Down pitch" is more proper than "negative", but it's redundant. Pitch is always down, never up. If you insist on using negative and positive, then this gun has "some" pitch; in fact a lot of pitch, and a lot is positive not negative.

    I'm still waiting to see a gun with "zero" pitch. Don't see how that could be confused with anything else.
     
  17. GW22

    GW22 Active Member

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    Mike:

    I don't "insist" on using the term -- Dennis Devault described the stock in the picture, WHICH HE BUILT, as having "negative pitch" so I used the same term to be consistent and not confuse anyone. Click the link I provided, which is where you got the picture, and read it yourself. Remember -- you're the one who asked what Dennis would say in the first place. I simply showed you where to find out. Do you think he mis-spoke? I asked him that, and he did not reply. Again, go look for yourself.

    Besides, what's the difference whether we call it negative pitch or downpitch? ...Unless you think those terms are opposites? Is that your issue?

    Also, I don't get why you say you've "NEVER...seen a target gun with zero pitch." I've sat several trapguns upside-down on my workbench over the years, mine and other people's, and scribed a line with a carpenter's square in order to trim the butt and install a new recoil pad at dead zero pitch. And if the rib isn't parallel, I correct for that if desired. I surely didn't invent that; there are probably many thousands of other shotguns around which were zeroed out the same way.

    Why is that reality so upsetting to you? If you like 2" of pitch at 43" then use that, but don't stick your head in the sand and pretend the rest of the world doesn't exist.

    Finally, let me point out the obvious -- many trap guns have some downpitch because trap shooters are generally heavy-set men and a dead-zero pitch stock would poke them in the armpit because the pad does not have full length contact. But again, that doesn't mean no other situation exists.

    -Gary
     
  18. mike campbell

    mike campbell Active Member

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    Gary,

    When did this get personal?

    Must be when you addressed me by name and I responded directly to you.

    Rest assured, that won't happen again.
     
  19. Dave Berlet

    Dave Berlet Active Member

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    Mike (never as in never) I am wondering what kind of gun stocks you have made and for what kind of clay target sports? Let me say that I realize that not all stock builders and not all stock fitters have the same ideas as to how the stock should fit the shooter and if you are happy the way you do it more power to you. Although to say that you never saw a trap gun with zero pitch that was made after 1950 seems rather absurd.

    Brad is approximately 5 ft 10 inches tall and probably weighs around 170 lbs. I am 6 ft tall and weigh about 275 lbs and we both shoot zero pitch. What we both want is a gun that recoils straight back. Even if it feels good on the shoulder down pitch will cause the stock to move upward as it recoils and can cause discomfort to the cheek area to many shooters. Being a trapshooter for almost 60 years I will tell you that from my early years on I discovered many things about gun fit in general. Some by accident, some from experience, some from discussion with other shooters. A lot from trial and error and I like something as close as possible to zero pitch. Zero pitch means that the rear end of the butt stock is at a 90 degree angle from the centerline of the bore.

    Dave Berlet
     
  20. 27-T

    27-T Member

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    Dave - once again, thanks for a very enlightening post.

    27-T
     
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