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Dangerous Weekend Shooters

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by The Kolar Kid, Jul 28, 2008.

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  1. The Kolar Kid

    The Kolar Kid TS Member

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    I thought I would share this with you guys/gals.
    I went to the local club this weekend to practice up for the grand. I had a trap all to myself and a group of four showed up. Two kids, dad, and uncle were the shooters. Along with them were all the wife/sisters spectators. The first sign of trouble was they helped themselves to my table by scooting my stuff aside to make room for their own gear, no biggie but it would have been a little more polite to ask first instead of just taking the field over.

    Anyway, they started by not dropping their tokens before standing the post and loading up (all of them!) So I stopped the squad and told them they would need to drop their coins to get targets. After all that I then started noticing how the gay next to me would chamber his rounds in his automatic pointed at the concrete we were standing on. So I politely stated to him that automatics have been known to discharge upon closing the breach and it would be safer if he were to point his muzzle down range while closing his breach. I was told to mind my own business (rookie). Then between shots he would cradle his gun in his arm pointing it directly at the shooter to his left. So again I spoke up about safety. About that time the range master saw this mess and approached this group. As you might expect, the group was belligerent to him and ultimately kicked off the field and off the club site. This folks were from out of town and probably thought we were a bunch of A-Holes… I guess I should consider myself lucky to have walked away with nothing more than a bunch of wasted targets they threw by clacking their actions and chit chattering about. At one time when I called a target and the bird didn’t fly this guy took it upon himself to call my bird for me!

    KK
     
  2. cubancigar2000

    cubancigar2000 Well-Known Member

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    When I see a group like that ( usually carrying camo hunting shotguns) I stay away or leave. They normally are not safety aware
     
  3. Mr Newbius©

    Mr Newbius© TS Member

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    Why didn't you just take a little break and relax while they shot and got out of your way or were you thinking you were going to impress there wives and sisters on how great of a shooter you are by shooting with them.

    Seriously ... you should have realized in the very beginning they were rookies and stayed off the line and just gotten the range master to come watch them ... that would have been the smartest thing to do instead of taking a chance even standing on line with them.
     
  4. School Teacher

    School Teacher Well-Known Member

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    Kolar Kid:


    From your narrative, it sounds like one or more of these shooters may earn a Darwin award or be indicted for manslaughter.


    In my experience, most new shooters, especially family groups, tend to be disorganized, talkative and excited about their "big day" at the range. Hopefully, there is at least one person in the group who is safety minded.


    If not, hopefully the club has some posted club rules (Open or Out! signs) and range personnel to ensure safety.


    I have tactfully advised many a new shooter not to load until it is there time to shoot and to control the direction of their muzzle.


    Still, you run into shooters who should not be allowed to be on a range without supervision.


    Ed Ward
     
  5. The Kolar Kid

    The Kolar Kid TS Member

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    Mr Newbius©

    Ok, number one, I don't have a need or desire to impress anyone, and I take offence at you even saying that since you don't know me...

    After watching them shoot 4 or five shoots I did in fact leave the field. It just turned out the range master was on his way at the same time. Not all rookies are dangerous, but these guys were. You may have a point in saying I should have stayed off the line, I hind sight I agree. On the other hand, I did shoot with another rookie that same day and he was a complete gentleman and asks for my help. He did great for his first time out and was completely safe. I personally like helping anyone I can to help our sport get stronger.

    I will pretend for now that you were not insulting me here on the forum and that this is your way of writing.

    KK
     
  6. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    You did the right thing trying to "help" them see the errors of their unsafe behavior.

    Most folks take it well.

    I remind them the club has a great safety record, and we'd like to keep it that way.
     
  7. Michael Jobe

    Michael Jobe TS Member

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    So it's his fault because he didn't get out of their way??

    ~Michael
     
  8. Gold E

    Gold E TS Member

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    School Teacher,

    Use Spell Check; it’s free!

    (Indicted)

    …Smile…
     
  9. ronbo142

    ronbo142 TS Member

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    The problem with most is that gun ownership and responsibility are not traits that go hand-in-hand. I have been around guns and gun clubs for 25 years and what I see never surprises me. The problem is that if you try and help you are perceived as a “Push know-it-all” and if you just walk away you are a “Stuck-up-jerk”. There is no quick fix, we want new shooters but at the same time we need safe shooters. We require a person to go through a testing procedure to get a drivers license to operate a 2 ton weapon why do we not require that a testing procedure to operate a 10 pound weapon.
    Some of us have been trained to handle many different types of weapons, our grandfathers and great-grandfathers were trained in the military. I spent 20 years in the Marine Corps and spend most of that time being trained in the proper usage and safety of firearms. I for one would support a licensing program but the drawback is that government would again be given an opportunity to figure out who owns a gun and who does not.
    So what is the solution? I would hope that gun clubs because of liability would be forced to have a member or a guest take some type of gun safety course. I know that Fairfax Rod and Gun Club require each of its members to sit through a whole day of range training annually. Those of us with experience know that one accident could close a facility or at least put a sour taste in the local media’s mouth to report about those dangerous guns. If you are a responsible gun owner and shooter you need to be the safety police, the gentlemen who made the original post did more than his duty and the range manager was absolutely correct in asking those rookies to leave. Clubs that are open to the public need to ask guests if they are familiar with the safety rules and have them sign a form to say they will abide by the rules or he or she will be asked to leave.
     
  10. Rem870TB

    Rem870TB Active Member

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    Our club has an advantage in regards to handling new shooters, being a small volunteer run outfit.

    We know all the regulars (at the last club I belonged to, before I moved from the area, this was not possible since it had 500+ members).

    We have full view and control of the range and it very easy to see who comes through the front door.

    I expect larger; and especially commercila ranges, don't have this situation, making sorting out "whose who" more difficult.

    We greet and "intercept" people who are new to us. By engaging them in informal conversation, it is easy to determine the experience level.

    We take the new, inexperienced people aside, and talk to them, stay with them and observe a couple squads with them, pointing out what is going on, then when the range is free, we take them there and walk them through a "round". Next they get to shoot with a club member behind them, this may go on for one to three rounds.

    While this is not a formal course, we have had very good success with this proceedure and obtained some new, safe members/shooters who can go through a round without being a hazard or distraction.

    I fully understand, this is not as easy to do at the club where the problem in the first post occured.

    Everyone of us was a "new guy" at one time, I enjoy teaching the gamed a great deal; however in the case of "I was told to mind my own business (rookie)" there always are a few with an "attitude", are not considerate or interested in actually learning the game, they don't make it through our initial screening and are given the opportunity to go play somewhere else.
     
  11. The Kolar Kid

    The Kolar Kid TS Member

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    ronbo142

    You make allot of vadid pointss. I too am a veteran and have been shooting since I was a young man. I have also attended many classes at Frontsite right outside of Las Vegas for pistol, shotgun, and rifle. Those classes really taught me allot about firearms in general.

    I would only hope that if was doing anything wrong someone, anyone would bring it to my attention quickly.

    KK
     
  12. Chango2

    Chango2 Active Member

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    'Tis the season; a gunclub owner told me yesterday that here in So-Cal he has to really be on his toes to enforce safety. When he sees the shooters dressed in camo and lots of entry level shotguns, it's the hunters tuning up for dove season here in So-Cal.

    I've found the overwhelming majority of the hunters that show up for tune-up shooting in the mid summer are polite and safe. However, I've found that the majority of the unsafe shooters are new hunters tuning up...or family groups out for the once in a long while shooting.

    So...I believe that it is the season and we all need to keep an extra heads up!
     
  13. BrowningGal

    BrowningGal TS Member

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    Chango2, you bring up a good point. It's only one month away here until dove season opens here in TX. I didn't see any hunters this weekend, but they should be out in droves soon.
     
  14. School Teacher

    School Teacher Well-Known Member

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    Gold E


    My apologies, I have corrected the error.


    Brother Kentigern, CFX, wore out many a red pencil on my compositions for both spelling and grammar. However, I did win composition of the week twice at St. Francis Xavier High School in Louisville, KY.


    I became a teacher after I retired from business. I teach math and science and do not take off for spelling.


    Ed Ward





    P.S. PIXAR has a new movie named WALL-E. It is about a little robot that is a joy to watch.


    http://disney.go.com/disneypictures/wall-e/


    The movie teaches many of the laws of science and the kids don’t even know that they are learning.


    Ed Ward
     
  15. Mr Newbius©

    Mr Newbius© TS Member

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    Rev ... look out now, it aint his fault and we'll just take it all as pretend for now that you were not really trying to insult him here on the forum but that it is just your way of writing ... right?

    Just because he can afford a Kolar does not mean he is above them either ... and as above you were not really trying to insult him here on the forum but that is just your way of writing ... right?
     
  16. mixer

    mixer Well-Known Member

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    A good thread. I've often wondered why some of the new shooters feel that wearing camo and boots is somehow an advantage on the trap line. Wannabe Rambos?


    Eric
     
  17. The Kolar Kid

    The Kolar Kid TS Member

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    Squibb/REV

    I appreciate your thoughts and you are right. But for the record, I was as polite to these folks as I could be. I actually offered a cold Gatorade to all of them before the shoot started thinking it was all good.

    As far as owing a Kolar goes, that has not a thing to do with how I treat people or how I view myself as a trap shooter. The fact that I have a nice gun only means I saved my hard earned cash and bought one, nothing to do with anything else. And I do not and will not apologize for anything I have earned and worked hard for. No one has ever given me a thing in life and that's that...

    KK
     
  18. Mr Newbius©

    Mr Newbius© TS Member

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    Eric ... they are normally ones that have to watched out for and kept close tabs on along with those who show up nail aprons or tool pouches they got from some lumber yard around there waists to hold there shells in.
     
  19. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    mixer,

    "I've often wondered why some of the new shooters feel that wearing camo and boots is somehow an advantage on the trap line."

    Probably because, they're using the trap field to practice for the upcoming hunting season, and that's what they'll be wearing when they go out and hunt.

    I don't begrudge folks who come to the club to improve their skills in anticipation of hunting season. I promote this when I teach hunter education classes.
     
  20. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    When a new shooter comes to the range, they are not hard to spot.

    As one who trains Law Enforcement, Private Security, not forgetting teens and college kids, and having been married THREE times, (widowed twice), I am used to hard headed, attitude laden folks who want to do things their way. Often, they do not have a clue what it is they are trying to do! LOL

    I have a three minute "scripted" safety orientation I give new shooters. I quickly let it be known this is NOT optional. The very few times I have been told a safety orientation was not needed, I mention that although they are welcome to visit the club, they will not be welcomed on THESE grounds with a firearm UNTIL they have the safety orientation.

    Needless to say, I have made prior arrangements with Club management. I am fortunate in that I belong to several clubs with rifle, handgun, and clay target ranges. I almost NEVER go to a Public Range for the reason stated above.

    While serving abroad in the Military nearly 40 years ago, I never got a scratch. I have never gotten a scratch training hard headed old cops, wise acre teens, or Grandma with her first firearm in a Carry Permit course.

    I will not put up with a new shooter being unsafe with a firearm in my presense. I HAVE had several close calls. (whew) After repeated warnings, I HAVE physically disarmed more than one person who was pointing a firearm in an unsafe direction at a gun club or training session.

    If I do go to a new gun club while traveling, I always ask management their policies on new shooters. If they do not have a policy, I ask for permission to do an orientation myself. If they decline, I inform them I will not allow unsafe gun handling in my presense. If they tell me anything other than OK, I WILL NOT SHOOT THERE, and leave.

    I have lost three family members to either criminal or negligent misuse of a firearm. My Father was shot two different times while running a bar. I have been shot at (and missed) on two different occasions. I am serious about responsible firearms handling. If you maliciously or negligently point a firearm at me, or an innocent soul, there will be immediate consequenses you may not like.

    No apologies. If you do not have the background, the training, or the stomach to make sure you and those around you are in a safe environment around others with firearms, then the prudent thing to do is to leave the area and inform management if needed.

    It is management's responsibility to insure that new shooters have an idea what is expected of them and what is acceptable behavior in the public arena with a firearm. If management fails to do this, I do not consider it to be the shooter's fault.
     
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