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Dangerous Federal Hull Separation

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by markdenis, Dec 10, 2009.

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  1. markdenis

    markdenis TS Member

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    Two weeks ago at a trap shoot, these two Federal Gold Medal plastic hulls separated from the brass and the entire plastic part lodged far down in the barrel. Both hulls are new trap loads, not reloaded, both were shot from a different gun (MX-10 & Kolar}.

    I was there and saw both of them when it happened. I helped get one of the hulls out (MX-10) and it took many, many hard hits with a hammer to drive it out. I was the one using the hammer. It was stuck solid but it finally came out.

    The following week two other people told me they had the same thing happen to them with more new Federal trap loads. I did not witness it, but I do believe them.

    Tonight I was at a trap shoot and it happened to me. I shoot a TM-1 Perazzi and a Federal hull separated and left the plastic part about halfway down the barrel. I had to come home because we had nothing strong enough to drive it out. It is still stuck in the barrel as I write this. Mine is a once fired reloaded hull.

    I have included a picture of the two that happened two weeks ago and one thing is very noticeable...where the plastic fits at the beginning of the hull is extremely thin, almost paper thin.

    I don't know if this paper thin plastic especially at the base is normal for Federal hulls or not, but if it is I can't understand how all Federal hulls don't separate when fired.

    That is five Federal hulls in two weeks just in my area alone by different people with different guns in different weather conditions.

    I just wanted to pass this on because of the potential dangers involved. If this would have happened to someone that ejected their hulls without looking at them, saving them, or someone shooting an automatic, the consequences could be potentially fatal.


    Mark Rounds
     
  2. markdenis

    markdenis TS Member

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    Well this is just kind of scary because four of them were new shells and only one was a reload.

    Mark Rounds
     
  3. Bruce Em

    Bruce Em Member

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    It wasn't made paper thin but became that way when it elongated due to forward pull of the tube with the load pushing the crimp open.

    This is a classic elastic to plastic failure mode.

    Glad no one was hurt. This looks like a smooth hull. I can not prove why they are more prone to failre vs the ribbed hulls.

    Tapered hulls are just that; they get thicker at the basewad and resist the pull better.

    regards
     
  4. CharlesK80

    CharlesK80 Member

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    Neil, did it melt to the barrel? If not, why so hard to push out?

    Where did he go?
     
  5. skidrowe7

    skidrowe7 Member

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    Thought I'd chime in here as I had the same hull separation on a reloaded once fired GM about a month ago. Only thing that saved me was just the brass base being ejected. I found the plastic way beyond the forcing cone and it took me forever to get it out!
     
  6. JRW

    JRW Member

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    I have had this happen at the powder drop station on my reloader. With the tube sticking inside the hull and brass staying with die. Jerry
     
  7. berta686

    berta686 TS Member

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  8. xringjim

    xringjim TS Member

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    Thanks for the heads up guys. I'll toss the remaining smooth hull Federals I have. Also, I've been seeing the Federal paper loads split the hull full length on new shells. What's happen to Federal? I sent them a message regarding the paper failures over a month ago and they never even got back to me with an explanation. Too bad, guess I'm going to become a Remington or AA man from now on. Jim
     
  9. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Are any of these hulls the same as the promo loads sold at the various Marts?
     
  10. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    Brian

    These hulls have the plasitc basewad. The Wally Specials have a rolled paper basewad.
     
  11. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm, they must have changed, because some of the empties I have here have a translucent plastic cup in the bottom.
     
  12. cubancigar2000

    cubancigar2000 Well-Known Member

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    I have never heard of this with a plastic hull but I load a lot of federal papers and if you don't check them for burn through at the base before loading them you will have this happen. They are very easy to remove though. I just insert my little finger and pull the paper hull back into the receiver on my 303 auto. If I load them to or three times I am ok but if I try to do 4 -6 times, then it will happen periodically. I guess it could be dangerous but since I have to take each shell out after firing it is easy to spot that you just have a base so the hull is stuck in the chamber
     
  13. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    This started a few years ago with a batch of the brown smoothies. The ribbed ones didn't seem to be a problem. I stopped reloading them and stuck with the STS and AA hulls. Never had a problem with the Federal Papers.

    Looks like the problem is back. HMB
     
  14. BrowningPotato

    BrowningPotato TS Member

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    Anyone wanting to get rid of their once fired Federal GM's please PM me. I will take them.
     
  15. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    A dow rod is easiest way to remove them from the barrel.
     
  16. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    I had the same separations with the ribbed hulls several years ago. I stopped using Federal GM plastic hulls as a result.

    Last year I acquired a couple thousand once fired GM plastic hulls to work up bunker loads. They are a mix of smooth and ribbed. I continue to have the same hull separation, in the exact same spot mentioned by all above. It is my belief that the hull is weakened by the "welding" of the separate bass wad to the hull to form a so called "one piece" hull.

    I've decided to use up all of the Federal 12S3 wads, then dump the remaining hulls. It just isn't worth the hassle.
     
  17. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    This very common in the Federal Smoothies hull using a slow burning powder like 800-X, at the gun club it happened often enough we made a steel rod and sharpened it with a flat point so we could get it under the crimp and push it out. This wporks very well for this purpose, use a 1/4 inch or 3/8 Inch steel rod and grind the tip at an angle, do not rotate it you doint want it pointed as it will not go under the crimp of the shell left in the Bbl. Lots of times the whole end of the shell goes out the Bbl like a deer slug, you just have the brass left behind, and you know to look down the Bbl.

    Lots of the smoothies burn off about 3/8s inch above the brass, a friend who shoots as my buddy partner has this happen quite frequently after loading them more than 2 times.

    My recommencation is only load them twice and pitch them, the older hulls w/ribs reload longer.


    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  18. j2jake

    j2jake Well-Known Member

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    Shooting partner nere in Fl has had same problem with them seperating. They are difficult to extract. Jake
     
  19. tiptoncotrap

    tiptoncotrap Member

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  20. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    I have made a brass tip for a cleaning rod. I shaped the "cutting" edge similar to the "muffler" tool for an air chisel. Works great on a solid rod. You could also use aluminum or some other soft metal. No sratches in the barrel and it will "slice" through or burrow under the leading edge of the broken hull and make it easier to remove. Used it twice and no longer need to, since I don't load the Federal "smoothies" anymore.
     
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