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Damaged Shells on a PW 800+ Help Please

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Smithy47, Jul 3, 2013.

  1. Smithy47

    Smithy47 Member

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    I have attached a pic of the problem I am having on my PW 800+ with electric drive. From Right to Left, a great reload to progressively bad reloads. I get about 4 randomly spread out bad shells per box of 25. I have checked every bolt and screw for tightness. It happens on the final crimp station, the one before the shell gets punched out of the loader. The index plate screws are tight, the final crimper is tight. I cannot figure this one out. Thanks in advance for any help you can offer. (Whiz, you out there?) Note, these are the old compression formed Winchester AA hulls, once fired. Bob

    smithy47_2008_030393.jpg
     
  2. over the hill

    over the hill Active Member

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    I have the same problem loading Gold Medals.

    It seems to happen on hulls that have had the folds completely open if that makes any sense.

    I have a MEC starter crimp I use to even the folds and they go thru fine?????

    Just my experience you might find helpful.



    Regards.....Gerald
     
  3. washandwear

    washandwear Member

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    Hi

    Had same issue on my MEC9000G. Radom occurence with old AA hull. Never solved it. Might try smooth crimp head used for paper.

    Regards

    W&W
     
  4. 320090T

    320090T Well-Known Member

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    Deepen your crimp a bit.
     
  5. RSVP410

    RSVP410 Member

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    I second the recommendation to deepen the crimp. It looks like you are crimping above where the factory crimp was. You can see the crease lines from the folds go around the lip and down the side of the shell on the bad ones.

    It might also be a good idea to check your crimp starter. It should close the shell up to the point where a pencil will just fit through the opening.

    Good Luck,
    Scott
     
  6. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    Maybe it is a reflection, but the hulls appear to exhibit signs of cocked wads. That would lead to a too-high wad column and resulting crimp problems or hull buckling.

    Ed
     
  7. likes-to-shoot

    likes-to-shoot Well-Known Member

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    First thing is what components are you using? A possible cause.

    I see a little crease about 1/4 up from the bottom on the left three hulls. I would try to deepen the crimp a little and reset the taper up (less). One of the lessons I have learned is that crease is related to the taper being too deep.
     
  8. Border Bandit

    Border Bandit Well-Known Member

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    4 in 25? Could it be that the shot cups have migrated? Take 'em apart and make sure. Also, if the wads are cocked, as Ed has suggested, remove the red Chinese finger torture wad guide thingey and replace it. I have the same setup as you and at the first sign of a wad catching, out goes the wad guide. They don't have to be split to need replacing.
    mikepoore_2008_270850.jpg


    best....mike
     
  9. sptnclays

    sptnclays Member

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    I would try dropping your wad ram a little. It looks like to me the wad and hence shot it not down enough.
     
  10. Smithy47

    Smithy47 Member

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    Thanks very much to all that responded. I really appreciate the suggestions.

    I am loading 1 oz. #8 shot, 20.4 gr. of Win WST powder, Claybuster CB8100-12 wad (TGT12 replacement) with Cheddite primers. It is the best trap load I have tried so far.

    I have tried moving the crimp starter up and down, does not appear to make any difference. I will try to deepen the crimp a little and see what that does. I took some of the bad ones apart but did not see anythng wrong with how the wad is seated. I will order a new wad guide.

    Thanks again for the suggestions.

    Respectfully, Bob
     
  11. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    Back when I owned a P-W loader (a 900 Elite Grand), I got a lot of buckled hulls and thought that seating the wads deeper would solve the problem but in fact doing so made it worse. I learned that adjusting the wad seating ram way up, seating a wad and then, with the eraser end of a wood pencil inserted under the shell and the operating handle down, adjust the wad seating ram until you cannot feel any more play by pushing up with the pencil.

    Adjusting wads down merely "spring-loads" them and they pop back up with a vengeance. Loaders that don't drop the shot at the same station where the wad is seated are prone to do that. P-Ws work best with zero or little more than zero wad pressure - if your problems continue after setting that correctly, you are using a wad that is too tall for your powder and shot recipe.

    Ed
     
  12. Smithy47

    Smithy47 Member

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    Thanks Ed, I will try that. I noticed that the wads I am using seem pretty tall compared to other makes for 1 oz loads. I checked on Claybuster website and they show these wads will work for 7/8 - 1 1/8 oz loads with 1 oz being the optimum load. They really shoot good and hold a good, tight pattern when I checked them against other reloads I tried.

    Thanks again, Bob
     
  13. skeeljc

    skeeljc Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

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    Set the final crimp a little deeper. If that does not fix it then you need to reduce the internal payload volume (shot, wad or powder). You could try setting the wad insertion ram a little lower to seat the wad a little deeper.

    If nothing else works try some real Remington TGT12 wads. Claybusters are not always an exact copy.

    Jim Skeel<br>P/W Dealer/Distributor
     
  14. Johnny

    Johnny Well-Known Member

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    Looks like too much pressure at the crimp station. Back off on the taper, that could be putting too much pressure on the shell. You don't really need any taper.
     
  15. Didreckson

    Didreckson Active Member

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    This is just a scientific wild a$$ guess, but it seems the AA hulls are just a touch shorter than Nitro or STS? At least it seems that was my experience, and the TGT12 is a great wad, but taller than the average one. Which is it's beauty for me when I load 700X (who can find any of that now?). I get great crimps with a dense powder. When I am using Clays or E3, I switch to a shorter wad, get the same great crimp.

    Seems silly, as the difference appears minimal, but it sure makes a difference on the final crimp quality.
     
  16. Alligator

    Alligator TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Just a thought as I have had this happen on even a P/W 375, take the final crimp die out and clean it thoroughly! I have had a microscopic piece of plastic migrate there either from trying to get to many reloads out of a case or God knows where. The tolerances on a P/W are so close that any little bit of crap in the crimp die will make weird inconsistent crimps, especially if it is floating around in the die. Lee.
     
  17. ljuticsscentennialpro

    ljuticsscentennialpro Member

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    You might also make sure that the lengths of the unloaded hulls are all the same. Sometimes different batches have different lengths. Bob
     
  18. Smithy47

    Smithy47 Member

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    Well, I messed around with some different wads but went back to my original one. I went about 1/2 turn down on both the final crimp and on the wad pressure. I only got one slighly bad case in about two boxes so this seemed to do some good.

    Thanks for all your help guys, I appreciate it. Bob
     
  19. kcbullets

    kcbullets Member

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    My 800+ did same thing with old AA's. Did fine with new AA's and Rem hulls. I just switched hulls.
     
  20. dls guide

    dls guide Member

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    The hulls are fine to reload. Try a different wad, like a 1 1/8 wad. Some AA hulls are very short and need a deeper shot cup to allow for a good crimp.