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D Class-no such thing.

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by tincanman, Jun 29, 2012.

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  1. tincanman

    tincanman Member

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    After a few registered shoots I've realized there is no such thing as a true D class. Any shooter who does not have registered targets gets tossed into the D ranks along with those who have been shooting at the D level. I haven't seen any D classification winners shooting in the 80's.

    Why don't "new" shooters get thrown into a "new shooters" classification and allow those who have registered targets at the D level to go head to head?

    The ATA could do a lot better on this.
     
  2. bonzai272

    bonzai272 Member

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    I was put in B as a new shooter. I thought that was the norm. I wish they put me in D, I might have won a few things before they caught on.
     
  3. Ahab

    Ahab Well-Known Member

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    tincanman ... go back and read the rule book!

    Bonzai has it correct ... new shooters start at Class B.
     
  4. yakimaman

    yakimaman Well-Known Member

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    Ahab, ATA does not classify shooters, shoot management does. You're talking about penalty class. And I just took a look at some singles scores from the Ohio State shoot. D Class Singles in even #1 was won with a score of 96, good shooting for someone who's regular average is below 88. Lo and behold the same guy won the Singles the next day in event #4 with a score of 98. If you win or tie an event aren't you supposed to get bumped up one class. Hmmmmmm,looks like someone missed that one.

    rm
     
  5. yakimaman

    yakimaman Well-Known Member

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    In Ohio this year, the Buckeye Classic had no target requirements and they were waived for the State shoot, so anyone with an ATA card and no registered targets could declare D or shoot one local event at 88 or below and enter the tournament at that level.
     
  6. V10

    V10 Well-Known Member

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    "If you win or tie an event aren't you supposed to get bumped up one class."

    It depends on what, if anything, the program says about class move ups.

    In the case of the Ohio State Shoot, class move ups didn't start until Event 4, as stated on page 9 of the program.
     
  7. Chango2

    Chango2 Active Member

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    Food for thought: Hmmmm, D class. An 88 shot under windy desert conditions is quite different than an 88 shot under calm, "perfect" conditions.
     
  8. trapshooteraa27aa

    trapshooteraa27aa Well-Known Member

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    I bet that guy with the gold chains was doing the classifying..lol
     
  9. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    in 100 bird singles events, due to carryovers, the winner very well may not get bumped for several days and events.
     
  10. Laserwizard

    Laserwizard Member

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    Yakimaman

    Wins on preliminary day do not count towards the class bump up. If you win on the second day or any day thereafter you will be bumped up one class for the remainder of the shoot, as well as you'll be bumped one class when you come back to shoot the following year.
     
  11. tincanman

    tincanman Member

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    D-20-D for new shooters in most programs that I've seen in these parts. Classification should be a hard and fast rule enforced by the ATA and NOT the local management of registered shoots. The local management should be able to turn to page 20, read it and determine that if you do not have X amount of registered targets to prove yourself, then you go into the "unclassifed division, division E."

    We do it in ski racing. All new ski racers go into the open E division until their times allow them to move into a valid division for level competition with A level being the best. It's a tier system with A, B, C, D and E with A being the best similar to current ATA classes.

    It just seems like the ATA has set up a system to reward only the best of the best.

    There is NO competition available for D shooters. Outside of having someone score for you, I don't see why anyone would continue to pay more to shoot in registered shoots who is not shooting in A or AA.
     
  12. Wolfman

    Wolfman Member

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    Good point Tincanman - the ATA classification system is pretty flawed in my opinion. Known ability is supposed to be a part of the equation, but I have seen many instances of A level shooters either managing their targets over the Winter or returning from an illness get classed lower. I believe it is discouraging for entry level shooters to see this, and reduces the incentive to return to registered shoots. The 'Kentucky D' is a known and joked about phenomenon.

    Quite honestly, the amount of smirking/grinning that goes on among the miss-classed (in my opinion) shooters is even more troubling. I was an A class shooter several years ago, and my average dropped. Rather than accept a lower class, I still insist on A/20 for all meets. I would rather not win B or C class with my ability to occasionally shoot 98/99.

    More over, when I have attended Zone shoots and the Grand, the scores in all classes are embarrassingly close. I would be frankly compelled to question the basis of the classifications based on the current results.
     
  13. dds4horse

    dds4horse Member

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    I showed up at the Ohio state shoot they swiped my card and said you are a class C However my actual average was a 91.05 and that is B class so I corrected him and he said thanks for being honest... Makes me wonder how many people would have just shot in C class which BTW I would have won. Then a couple days later I got a 1 yrd reduction from the ATA and even though it was on the computer they couldn't give it to me because I did not have the physical new average card which came in the mail that monday. Oh well.
    os
     
  14. Len in Phoenix

    Len in Phoenix TS Member

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    I agree with Wolfman that at major shoots the winning scores in all classes are embarrassingly close together. In my opinion this hurts our 'new shooter retention' more than anything else. New shooters don't get discouraged by high scores in A or AA....that's where they want to be. The discouraging part is seeing D class won with a 98.

    Would there be any support for a system of codes (somewhat similar to the handicap code system) that mandates higher classification in singles based on high scores? Perhaps something like this:

    --- Regardless of the number of shooters present, any shooter who posts a score of 95 or 96 will not be classified lower than C class for the remainder of that target year. Any shooter posting a score of 97 or 98 will not be classed lower than B class for the remainder of the target year. Any shooter posting a score of 99 or 100 will not be classed lower than A class for the remainder of the target year. ---

    I wouldn't apply this rule to Big 50's, just to full 100 target events. It would be fascinating to see if a rule like this suddenly resulted in a series of 8 way ties in D class at 94.............


    Len in Phoenix
     
  15. tracyhunter

    tracyhunter Member

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    good post Wolfman.how about once you win a state shoot or one of the grands,you move up to the next class for 5yrs or even forever.but then that would be unfair to those shooters that"just had a good day".:)
     
  16. John Galt

    John Galt TS Member

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    tincan, if you don't want to shoot in D class all you have to do is tell the classifier you want to be put into a higher class.

    If the winner of every class shot there average there would be no 100 straights shot by any class since nobody has a 100 average. It should be obvious to anybody with even a rudimentary knowledge of statistics that scores will fall into a bell curve- some will shoot crappy, some will shoot average and some will shoot well.

    IMO, the ATA is smart to stay out of classifying shooters except at certain large shoots.
     
  17. tracyhunter

    tracyhunter Member

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    You got it john.and the real unemployment in the country is 8.2 because the gov. statistics say so.statistics are only as good as the data supplied to the statistician.sandbagging makes the numbers flawed and therefore the statistics are flawed.but i could be wrong.never finished my MBA.
     
  18. midalake

    midalake Well-Known Member

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    I have been saying this since the ATA started AAA class. Be done with D cut it loose, bury it, deep six it........Tweak the classes a little and make it C-AAA. Nuff said.........

    GS
     
  19. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    I'm not a D, but,

    my avg is 96.55 which puts me in AA on a 6 class system, but

    my last 3 rounds are 100,199,99... a 99.5 avg...

    how would you classify me on a 6 class system so I can tell the classifier what

    ts.com said...
     
  20. yakimaman

    yakimaman Well-Known Member

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    Ok, let's look again... maybe I'm missing something. A shooter with thousands of registered targets and with over a thousand in the current target year, with an average of 89.4 classifies as a D shooter and wins two D events with scores in the upper 90s. Good shooting, wrong class.
     
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