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CVR WIRELESS - PRO'S & CONS

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by BeerKing, Jul 11, 2007.

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  1. BeerKing

    BeerKing Active Member

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    THINKING ABOUT UPGRADING, WHAT DO YOU THINK?
     
  2. krieghoffkrusher

    krieghoffkrusher TS Member

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    They can be a challange to get to work the way you want but once you get them throwing birds when they are supposed to they are great.
     
  3. BeerKing

    BeerKing Active Member

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    WHAT ABOUT BATTERY LIFE ETC?
     
  4. gary0920

    gary0920 Member

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    Hope they are great, just ordered a set from Bob Schultz yesterday.
     
  5. KEYBEAR

    KEYBEAR Active Member

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    I have shot over them for two years now and really like them . Just like alot of stuff you need to take care of them or you will have a problem . Teach your help how to put them out and how to handle them . Most shooters that don,t get a target on a call need to change to the new call (PULL) it works every time . I may have one no target in about three hundred .
     
  6. Beretta687EELL

    Beretta687EELL Well-Known Member

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    Even the naysayers at our club like them after using them, since we purchased a set. Sometimes they get moved around and the transmitter on the mic stand gets turned away from the receiver on the trap house. There is a fairly narrow angle that they work well in, so make sure they face the house. Bill Malcolm
     
  7. BeerKing

    BeerKing Active Member

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    thanks for the information abacus. what kind of batteries do they use?
     
  8. jamlc

    jamlc TS Member

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    To all you Neanderthal's. Its amazing that you use remote control(s) for your TV, your satellite or cable, you use an automatic garage door opener, virtually everyone of you has a cell phone, and I'll bet some of you ran out and purchased the new Apple "Iphone" and yet you still want to live in the "Stone Age" by using a wireless system that is barely a step up from a wired CVR system. The wireless CVR is a poor excuse for a transition from a wired system to a wireless system. Who in their right mind would want to spend $500 more per system, on an antique wireless system that is already so antiquated that it won't repetitively reach the 27 yard line and that you need to position a microphone stand just right so it will release a bird. On top of that, it takes 28 AA batteries per field to run it and you need tools to change the batteries every few months. In addition you have to spend time mounting the receiver on the outside back of a trap house under a "polycarbonate" cover that is supposed to keep you from shooting it to pieces. Apparently the manufacturer doesn't know that "polycarbonate" ages and becomes brittle in sun light and if you haven't already shot the receiver to pieces you are setting yourselves up for it to happen. Believe me, it WILL happen. There is a system that is SEVERAL generations ahead of ANYTHING out there and it is called and "E R A D" and we have some. You must be the most ignorant person alive to want to spend $500 more on a system that you can't use a microphone on any field without spending and hour reprogramming it and that you must make sure its at least several fields away from a field that has the same programming so it won't throw birds on both fields. We NEVER get any cross calls, We can shoot in Montana and Wyoming winds and not release 9 million extra birds in fact we never release ANY extra birds, I can use my transmitter on ANY field, I never have to spend any time moving mics to shoot handicap, We never have to worry about banging our gun on some stupid microphone on a stand, let alone screwing around with frozen cables, or broken cables and mics that won't stand up in the snow or WIND, and that are constantly a pain in the neck to maintain, or have someone with an automatic constantly causing a bird to release because the shell ejected out onto one of those stupid mics that are always in the way and that you have to move all over the place to get to release a bird. Whew ...... let me take a breath. Who in there right mind would want to spend that much more money and still have to move mics around to shoot and then still spend time setting them up and having a place to store them when you put them up and worrying about someone stealing or vandalizing the receivers on the back of the trap house and still have a system that wildly release uncalled for birds. ...... So I guess you are going to put them up every evening and set the back out in the morning. Can't just shut power off, close up and lock the trap and skeet houses, and go home, can you. "We can". It amazes me that you bunch of Neanderthal's WANT to live in the "Stone Age". So ...... go ahead and live in the "Paleozoic age (248-545 million years ago)", waste your clubs money (or your own) and buy those junk wireless systems and a couple of years from now you are going to be re-buying a truly usable wireless system that not only handles trap, but handles skeet, 5 stand, sporting clays for us and allows us to manage our birds when we want, and you know what. Its going to be an E R A D. So go ahead and be a Neanderthal, you bunch of morons.

    JAM
     
  9. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Good thing you aren't trying a hard sell. Some people might be offended.

    HM
     
  10. ric3677

    ric3677 Well-Known Member

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    Altho the language is a bit strong for the readers here.....I really agree that the Erad are the BEST out there. I have the right tone to set targets off and am constantly being reminded that the squad behind me and in front of me are getting extra targets. I can truthfully state that if we were using the Erad system this would come to a halt.

    I am in the process of talking the rest of the board to purchase a couple of sets of these just for the ease of maintenance and set up. Hopefully I will come out on this.

    Rickyd
     
  11. jamlc

    jamlc TS Member

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    To Mr. Halfmile and Mr. Rickyd.

    You two seem to be the only two people with enough gumption to respond (although short and to the point), to my dissertation about what is a usable wireless system and what is not. So let me be a little more serious here and ask you a couple of questions.

    1) What has the new wireless systems done for the industry (clay target shooting)?

    and,

    2) What has been done for the shooter?

    Question number one addresses the need for clubs to be able to be profitable. If you are in a BIG city with a BIG club you might be able to charge enough in annual dues to cover everything let alone the price you can charge for a round, but this IS the rare exception. Most clubs only have a few fields and must be careful to monitor where the income comes from and what bills are generated in producing that cash flow. When a club looses 10 to 15 percent from unwanted bird releases, let alone another 10 to 15 percent to stolen, that's right, stolen birds, birds shot by club members who know that they are not paying for them, they need everything at their disposal to control the situation if they are going to stay in business. So, since I have the floor, let me make some statements here. Tell me, how does having a wireless release that take just as much time to setup, take down, maintain, supply batteries too, room to store, and costs $700 more per system than the old wired system help a club make money. In fact they release more unwanted birds than the old wired systems did. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the old wired systems weren't good for the industry, they were, but only to a point. Not only did they cost the clubs for something that a "trap boy" already did, (that is release birds), they didn't eliminate any of the trap help, (partly because the shooters just think they have to have a "trap boy" to score), but the real reason the "trap boys" are still there at most clubs is to keep the shooters honest. Most of whom, are some what honest, but even they steal some birds, with the biggest problem being those two, three or four who aren't, and every club seems to have them. And don't think that those "trap boys" are there to load machines. Any club that has a voice release system also has auto loading machines that only need loading a few times a day at most. So you shouldn't need a "trap boy" at EACH field. Not only did it not eliminate labor, it actually caused the clubs to spend more on labor because of set up and take down time, let alone maintenance. To add insult to injury they release a horrendous number of uncalled for birds. So you tell me. From a clubs point of view are the old wired systems really worth it, ....... and the answer is ..... NO. They simply are an unwanted expense. But, that is the price of progress, and it did give the shooters a very, very modest change in their shooting experience. They now felt that they were in control of their own destiny, that is, the release of the bird even when they had to call multiple times to get a release. Ok, so where do we go from here. Do we simply take a wired system, paste on some "off the shelf components" so to speak, and create a wireless system that some one thinks eliminates labor because they no longer have a bunch of wires to deal with. You don't really believe that do you? What you end up with is a kludged up system that performs worse that the old wired system, takes more time overall to setup, take down, and maintain, (remember you have to deal with batteries and wireless components now) and costs ANOTHER $700 more (ie. $2000 per system) than the old wired systems. So tell me when you get a low battery indication are you going to change the batteries only in that mic, or are you going to change them all. All 28 of them. If you change only the one mic then tomorrow or the next day you are going to be changing the next mic. And in the next couple of days you are going to change the next mic, and it never quits. If you have 7 or 8 fields it gets to be ridiculous. So you then think, I'll just change them all at once. Ok, go ahead buy 28 batteries per field every 3 or 4 months (actually if you use them for any extended period of time each day you won't get 3 months) and do this for all 8 fields. Let me see, ..... if my memory serves me right that would be 28 times 8 equals 224 batteries. You have to be kidding. What has this done to improve my clubs bottom line. NOTHING, it is purely and expense. THIS IS NOT WHAT THE INSUSTRY NEEDS. We need the next generation of release systems to improve the cost of doing business NOT cost me $700 more per system up front and dollars to run them. So what was accomplished? All they did is move the expenses from maintaining cables to the cost of batteries and the labor to maintain the wireless components. They did not improve the industries bottom line. So, you say, what does all this have to do with me? Everything. You (WE) are the current generation. It is our responsibility to maintain the sport of shooting clays and to keep clubs open for the next generation and keep costs down so the industry doesn't die from it own stupidity. Lets go to the second question.

    You tell me what the "New Wireless" CVR system has done for you as a shooter. Has it eliminated unwanted releases? ........ and again the answer is ...... a resounding NOOOO. In fact they are as bad or worse than the wired systems. Did they eliminate the cross calling problem with the new wireless version. Again the answer is NO. Ok, .... maybe they improved the calling for the bird. Just read the postings above. One gentleman suggests you change your call to "PULL" so that you will get a bird every time (actually this calling for a bird "thing" is and issue of its own and you don't want to get me started on the idiots that can't even hear their own call let alone some of the stupid words they use). Another suggests that you position the mic just right so the receiver will work. What's going on here!!!! I just bought this "Brand New" ... quote, "State of the art" Wireless CVR or some other system and I can't just walk up to it and shoot. I have to move things around to make it work. Your kidding me .... right????? Another person states that some people are buying some form of a mic system with a speaker attach to themselves to get the release mics to respond to their voice. I don't care what brand it is, to have to do all these things to get the "latest and greatest" system to release a bird is absolutely ridiculous. And the wind would never blow over the new wireless CVR or any other stand based system. Yea, right. And did the "latest and greatest stand based system" eliminate the difference in voice recognition and release times from station to station (mic to mic). Oh, and let us not forget. You still get to move the mics when you shoot handicap, and all for JUST and additional $700 PER SYSTEM MORE THAN THE OLD WIRED SYSTEMS. Why ... I must be in paradise.

    So what's the point of all of this. At the very beginning of the "thread" a gentleman asked a very straight forward question about the CVR wireless systems. Did anyone bother to tell him that before he purchased one he should seriously consider ALL the option out there and explain what has been brought to the table in the form of a wireless "CVR" system. No, not only do they blindly go about discussing it, they don't even realize that they themselves are saying how bad the system is. Just read the postings. One gentleman commented on the E R A D system and no one else picked up on it. Has any one of them bothered to really look into what an "E R A D" system will do. Take some time to look into it and you will find that they are the first and only company that has addressed every issue and more that is mentioned above. They have virtually eliminated ALL unwanted releases. They have eliminated 100% of the problem of mic to mic (station to station) differences in voice recognition and release times. They have eliminated 100% of the cross calling problem. They have eliminated all setup and take down labor, and they have provided the clubs with the ability to control the sale of birds if they want to through their system so the clubs don't loose birds. At any time a club can activate the bird management features and start controlling their losses at no additional cost, it's already in the system. Oh yea, .... and there is no moving of mics to shoot handicap, just walk to the next station and go to shooting. And what does it cost. How about $500 less than the wireless CVR. Right at $1500 per system, and I don't have to mount anything on the outside of the trap house. You will know when you are on a field that has an E R A D system installed. There isn't anything on it. That's right, it looks like the field is closed down, completely clean of wires, mics on stands, control boxes, nothing but clear field.

    One last thing, did CVR do anything for the other disciplines in the clays shooting industry for an additional $700 per system. Does there system handle skeet, 5 stand, sporting clays etc. or would you have to buy some other system if you wanted to automate those disciplines. The answer is no, theirs does not, in fact no one else does all the disciplines with the same system except the E R A D. Look into it and you will find that you can take the exact same transmitter and go an shoot a game of 5 stand and 5 seconds later take that same transmitter and go and shoot a game of skeet or whatever game you want. And how big is this transmitter. Is it some 3 foot high monster microphone on a stand that I have to carry around. You already know the answer. Is the size of a credit card and is about a quarter of an inch thick and you just clip it to your collar.

    So you tell me who cares about the future of the sport. You tell me, what has CVR done to improve things. Now you know why I wrote what I did in the first posting.

    JAM
     
  12. Dickgshot

    Dickgshot Well-Known Member

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    JAM: Your arguments are well thought out and convincing. So, here's my question. Why isn't ERAD doing more to market their system? I couldn't even find a website for them. Canterbury has distributors, repair centers, and a whole support system. I'll bet 90% of the shooters have never even heard of ERAD.
     
  13. Bill Bauer

    Bill Bauer TS Member

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    Jamic
    First I have to say I've never shot with the ERAD system so I really can't comment on it. However I do have to rebut some of you dissertation about the failings of the Wireless CVR systems. If your familiar with the weather in Nebraska, especially southwest Ne. you know we probably have one or two days that the wind doesn't blow. Want to eliminate the cross calls and wind trips, go to the turbo mic's, we experienced all those problems with the orginal mic's but going with the turbo's made it a non-issue. Are you also telling me that the ERAD system has no problems? I think not, the perfect slice of bread hasn't been invented yet. If you're ever close to the McCook, Ne area we invite you to come shoot a round with us using the wireless CVR's and then make a judgement. I'm just as convinced that we have as good a product as you are of your's and we certainly don't lose 10-15% of our rocks due to the Wireless VCR's and I certainly won't bash the ERAD system or belittle someone who doesn't agree with our point of view.
    Bill
     
  14. smartass

    smartass TS Member

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    Let me guess- JAM is an ERAD salesman as well as a verbose babbler.
     
  15. jamlc

    jamlc TS Member

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    To Mr. Dickgtax. I have asked why they don't have a website and there answer is that they are working on it. Call them, ask them anything you want. Their new email address is eradusa@earthlink.net and their phone number is 1-817-244-1761.

    To Mr. Bill Bauer. Let me give a little and then ask you some questions/make some statements. Lets make believe that the CVR systems never had any cross talk problems. Lets make believe that they never had any voice release or release delay problems between mics. Lets also believe that they never had any wind release problems. Even if these were true, when given the choice between two different manufacturers, how would you justify to your superiors, that you purchased as system that costs $500 more than the competitors, that you still have to spend time setting up and taking down, that you still have to move mics on to shoot handicap (let alone all the mic moving that actually goes on). That will still be blown over by the wind, that won't handle any other discipline but the game of trap and, that does not provide any bird management functions when the other guy does all of that and more for $500 less. Not only does the E R A D do bird management, they have a software package that you can load onto your PC and upload and down load bird costs, moneys, data, new features etc. into any transmitter or receiver. Also, how much did it cost you to replace all those mics, and one last thing. I didn't say the E R A D's were the perfect slice of bread so to speak. What I said is that it solves all of the above problems.

    To Mr. Shootalot. I have used the E R A D's in registered shoots and it takes no more time than it takes you to positions your mic on the first station to clip on the E R A D mic and from then on you never have to mess with it again. You on the other hand, (and I don't mean this disrespectfully) will spend time adjusting the mic on every station you step up to. You will spend 5 times as much time messing around with mics than the shooters who are using the E R A D's. Let me give you another little fact. If you use the E R A D's on every field in a competition, not only will the shooters shoot higher scores, you will finish sooner. Just think about the difference between using a stand based mic on handicap and a mic that is attached to the shooter. How much time is spent just moving the mics when shooting handicap. The fact is that no matter what game you are shooting, 16 yrd, handicap, or doubles, virtually everyone spends time messing with the mics. To you, I must say thank you for admitting that your club, like so many others, has people who will steal. Do you really think that if they are willing to steal a piece of equipment that they aren't stealing birds.

    To Mr. Anonymous stud (interesting selection). Apparently you have the same idea as I did, when I first got my hands on an E R A D. "Wouldn't I like to be a rep for this thing". But, if you call them the answer will be no, I know, I already tried.

    Let me make something very, very clear to everyone. I don't care who manufactures the next generation voice release systems. Heck, I don't even care if its wireless (until I used the E R A D) so long as it improves the sport. Having once seen what is available however, there is no going back. It's to bad that you seem to think that since I can make a judgment call based on the merits of the product and you obviously won't, that I am a sales person for it. Well, in a way I am. Why should WE (clubs and shooters) settle for anything less than the best when we are spending good hard earned money. The industry and shooters deserve something better and it certainly isn't the wireless CVR's.

    Well, I have said my peace for a while. I'll be in the Amazon (so to speak, don't tell my wife that's what I think about it) for the next few months, so I doubt that I'll get to see how this turns out. I hope some of you are willing to pick up the mantel and stand up for the needs of the clubs and shooters. Oh yea, and when I get back, we'll talk about those nut cases that can't pronounce, "PULL".

    Thanks, JAM
     
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