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Curious: Re. Ship Protection

Discussion in 'Off Topic Threads' started by Chango2, Apr 12, 2009.

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  1. Chango2

    Chango2 Active Member

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    After following the drama regarding the American captain and piracy, I wondered if anybody knows how the B-29 bomber protected itself. All I do know is that the guns, likely 50 caliber full autos, were fired remotely and electronically. No actual gunner sat in any turret. This sounds awfully advanced for the era and I wonder how the gunner(s) knew where the targets were and how to aim? It sounds as if this technology, in an updated form, (non vacuum tube for a start) might allow ships to protect themselves and allow the crew to remain inside to ward off pirates?

    Any students of airplanes, WWII, engineers, etc., can enlighten about this more?

    Thanks.
     
  2. mixer

    mixer Well-Known Member

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    There has to be some overiding reason that merchant/cargo ships don't have any means of effectively protecting themselves from pirates, etc.

    Eric
     
  3. Chango2

    Chango2 Active Member

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    Never thought of armed ships as a problem compared to land vehicles amongst lots of traffic. Figure something as complex as a ship could easily have the room and the funds to train people to protect it...specialists, if you will. I figure if the crews on ships can change pistons and or cylinders at sea in huge engines, run steam plants, AC plants, and even change, sometimes, driveshafts, navigating, running complex computer systems, "running" a medium size arms system would be a piece of cake due to the room on an ocean liner and the cost effectiveness given that millions upon millions of dollars worth of goods are moved at at risk at any one time. However, I am glad that "Sam and J.D." who just finished Ace Trucking School don't have a chain gun on the roof of the cab! But it is enlightening to know that arming a civilian-run commercial vessel presents other difficulties?
     
  4. HSLDS

    HSLDS Well-Known Member

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    It's not so much an issue of arms on the high seas as it is the local laws in the various countries they visit.

    Unlike the USA most countries have severe if not total restrictions on private ownership of firearms. Merchant Mariners would be subject to each of these laws...
     
  5. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    How about a sea marshall? Like an air marshall? I would think most of these events happen at night? Makes the deal a little tougher. During the day, you can see a ship coming from 4 miles away on the water. Batten the hatches, pull up the gang rope, and man the .223's!

    The US should tell the international folks to F--k off. We're arming our ships with a crew carrying CC permits and .223's. Just try to board our ships. It won't be worth it to these a-holes if they know they'll get their butts shot.
     
  6. Rem870TB

    Rem870TB Active Member

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    Perhaps it is time to bring back an updated version of the Q Ship and have a few cruise around areas where attacks are common?

    See the definition in the link.
     
  7. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Convoys would be cheaper. One warship could escort a lot of vessels through the lawless area.

    I think a destroyer would be plenty. The best these oafs have is RPG's, as far as I know.

    HM
     
  8. chipped1

    chipped1 TS Member

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    How about dealing with the source? Anything that floats in Somalia should be sunk.
     
  9. Ahab

    Ahab Well-Known Member

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    The answer to countries that don't permit armed ships into port....stop all shipping to those countries....any bets they change their laws?
     
  10. HSLDS

    HSLDS Well-Known Member

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    Rebel,

    I think you miss the point of this - you were in the military, which has a government standing - in essence a US military ship is US territory, so it is fine for you to be armed (plus, you don't have to pay the $$ when the survivors/families file suit in US Court).

    These ships are essentially 'private citizens' and sadly the rest of the world does not have the second amendment.

    Think back to Vietnam and the lovely 'ROE' - I am certain that as the US worked up Pacific Island chains in wars past there was little concern about ROE - if you were threatened - you fired.

    Sadly, if you took your attitude today you would end up with weapons, use of excessive force, and assault or murder charges. And don't forget those civil suits...

    As I recall President Johnson was so scared of the Soviets that he second guessed every aspect of the Vietnam war by giving us ROE - and assured one for the 'loss' column.

    Just let the commander in the field make the call, and all should work out.

    The Merchant Marine is another story, but that, sadly becomes one for the UN or the World Court (ARRRGGGGHHHHHH).
     
  11. mixer

    mixer Well-Known Member

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    If we arm our merchant/cargo ships then other nations will arm theirs. I don't think the Department of Homeland Security would be too happy to have armed foreign flag cargo ships in our ports.

    Eric
     
  12. Ahab

    Ahab Well-Known Member

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    221....I see armoured cars all over Los Angeles, every day...very few are ever robbed...the bad guys rather go after defenseless 7-11 stores!
     
  13. Michael Jobe

    Michael Jobe TS Member

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    The B-29 still had gunners. They didn't sit in the turret itself, the had a firing position where they looked out a plexiglass bubble. They had a fire control and gun sight in front of them. When they moved the firecontrol, the turret followed along.

    ~Michael
     
  14. Chango2

    Chango2 Active Member

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    Ahab...those hi jackers are lucky that each member on the cargo ship was not carrying a trench model of the M-12 with slugs!!!
     
  15. Ahab

    Ahab Well-Known Member

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    Chango...or buckshot!
     
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