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Cross Eye Dominance question

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Uncle Screech, May 16, 2013.

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  1. Uncle Screech

    Uncle Screech Member

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    While I'm waiting for a miracle to happen I thought I'd ask a question of the group... I'm left handed and right eye dominant. I've always shot with my right eye closed and am used to it. As most of us who are afflicted with this dreaded problem, I've tried on occasion to somehow open both eyes and have it be "natural", with no luck. Thinking about the "dots" some folks use with success I was wondering if anyone has ever tried fiddling with their interchangeable lenses in their glasses? I could put a very dark Ranger CMT lens in the right side and a light yellow in the left and maybe it would prevent the cross eye thing? Has anyone ever tried that?

    Just curious and thanks for taking the time to read this.


    Greg
     
  2. MTA Tom

    MTA Tom Active Member

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    It's been tried. It doesn't work. Sorry.
     
  3. stilltrying

    stilltrying Member

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    Try the product from Meadow Industries, the one with the tube and different colored sights. I like the orange.
     
  4. RobertT

    RobertT Well-Known Member

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    Stay with what's working for you. You're going to get many different answers or solutions to a problem that doesn't exist. Shooting with both eyes open is over rated.

    Robert
     
  5. multifired

    multifired Member

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    I maybe belaboring the obvious but I am left handed and right eye dominant. I shoot right handed with both eyes open. Try it if you have not already done so. Tom
     
  6. Uncle Screech

    Uncle Screech Member

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    Thanks everyone for the replies, this was just one of those questions that popped into my head on the drive home from work.

    I have tried shooting from the right side and didn't do half bad either. Both eyes opened "naturally". It was a "different" sight picture but everything else was so uncomfortable that after 4 boxes and a very tender right shoulder I went back to the left side. It's nice to know though that if someone was ever foolish enough to bet me I would stand a good chance of taking their money.

    I don't have any plans on making the change, just had a thought and figured I'd ask everyone the question before it slipped my mind.

    Again, thanks and break 'em all...


    Greg
     
  7. targetchip

    targetchip Banned User Banned

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    Uncle screech,

    There is a new device that helps called XDS( cross dominant solution)

    Allows you to shoot from your handedness side both eyes open!

    Click on the website above!

    Many are using it with satisfaction!
     
  8. smokintom

    smokintom Well-Known Member

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    Install an anticrossover front sight before it slips your mind again.As stilltrying said the one from Meadow Industries works and it works very well.Happy shooting.
     
  9. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    I got the prescription for my on gun eye tweaked one notch over where it needed to be and my cross-firing went away. I kid you not.
     
  10. targetchip

    targetchip Banned User Banned

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    smokintom here is the problem with the Meadow Industries product"

    The theory here is that the "off eye" cannot see
    the bead, and by blocking the bead from the
    master eye, you can let the other eye control
    the aiming. The theory is good, but in actual
    practice this is a really sorry solution. The
    problem with it is this. Your actual sight
    picture that the brain uses is a lot more than
    just the bead. Your brain knows that the bead is
    just part of what you are pointing. In fact you
    are pointing a receiver, barrel, and vent rib,
    in addition to the bead. All of this is sight
    picture. The fence only stops your "off eye" from
    seeing the bead. The "off eye" can still see the
    rib and barrel, which actually makes up more of
    the sight picture than the bead does.
    In other words the eye dominance still in place!!!
     
  11. pumpernck

    pumpernck Member

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    I know several folks that have the same problem. Most use closing one eye to preclude crossfiring. If you have shot some from the other side, I would suggest that you give it a real try. Your soreness will disappear with proper gun mount and practice. Using both eyes is a real advantage in this sport, but that does not mean that some shooters can't achieve a great level of competence using one eye. Have a friend that shoots both eyes open RH with Left Eye dominant and he flinches badly at least once every round, most times twice. I am convinced that it is due to his eyes, not his shyness from the recoil. Try shooting on the side of your dominant eye and I think you will find it much more natural after you get used to it. JMO Pete
     
  12. juststartin'

    juststartin' Member

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    Just got done this past weekend shooting 875 targets. 775 of them were not good. Tried everything. Flintched terribly. Finally, great friend/coach says, "try closing your left eye". 46 outta 50 next doubles trap. Stopped after that.

    I will shoot one-eyed from here on out.
     
  13. targetchip

    targetchip Banned User Banned

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    there are people who can't have dots,tapes on the glasses b/c of side effects like
    eye fatigue, irritation,headaches. others can't wink!

    For this category of shooters the XDS is the answer!

    "I tested the XDS for the first time today.....First some background.......

    I normally shoot with tape on my left lens. About 1 1/2" along the top of the lens.

    Today, I had very good results using the XDS for the first time. I had to play around with the position of the bracket and the size of the blinder but I shot better scores and had consistently better breaks than I've been getting recently. This could be a game changer for me as it was nice not to have tape on my lens while at the range. Most importantly, I enjoyed the time in between shots where I didn't have look through tape while waiting for my squadmates to shoot. My eyes felt more relaxed and natural during the entire 12-14 minutes of the round." Go Dawgs
     
  14. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    Here are my details:

    Last year I got new a new prescription after seeing a flare up in cross-firing. My eye doctor is a rifle shooter and sensitive to the issues, but he's still an eye doctor. He prescribed 'just enough' correction for my on gun eye. When it didn't work that well at the range, I went back and told him: when I put my glasses on, my on gun eye sees fuzziness for a moment - but not every time. He put me in the chair again and did a special test with just that eye. He went back and forth with different lenses until he was just above and just below the exact correction. He claimed he didn't have exactly what that eye needed, so he chose to go above rather than below the need this time.

    I wonder if acuity effects the brain's choice in which eye's view to use. I believe it does, so you want the sharpest view in the on gun eye. After I got this new prescription I went back to the range and haven't reconsidered a lens issue since. I moved on to general fitness and have already shot a 100 straight after being off during the IL winter. I tried all last year to do this and have achieved my goal in my second outing mainly, in my opinion, because my eyes are corrected well and I'm in great shape. I'm also the top shooter in the spring league at our club. It's an 8 week league, 50 targets each week.

    Good luck.
     
  15. N. J. BOB

    N. J. BOB Active Member

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    I too am left handed and right eye dominant. I use a combination of both the meadow industries sight blinder and a small dot of tape. It solved my cross dom. completely.
     
  16. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Joe,

    I agree with you. If your brain is in good working order it will select the best image. HMB
     
  17. targetchip

    targetchip Banned User Banned

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    J BoB I never heard about this combination"I too am left handed and right eye dominant. I use a combination of both the meadow industries sight blinder and a small dot of tape"

    Why you use the Meadow industry stuff if you use a dot! If you have the dot you can't se the bead! It doesn't make sense!

    Can you explain?

    thanks!
     
  18. MTA Tom

    MTA Tom Active Member

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    "For most people, shotgunning is easier and more effective with both eyes open. Binocular vision facilitates the estimation of distance speed and angle, and helps one to get the full benefits of hand-to-eye coordination (if you doubt it, try catching a ball with one eye shut). There are other benefits to binocular vision such as reduced tension and fatigue. However, do not believe those who tell you simplistically that everyone should shoot with both eyes open. It is just not that simple (which condemns more than a few shooting tomes to the pyre): the critical consideration is eye dominance.

    It is a curiosity of the binocular system of human vision (at least in most adult males) that one eye tends to control pointing. If a finger were pointed at a distant object, there would be a straight line relationship from object to finger to eye. The pointing eye, whichever it may be, is called the dominant or master eye. The majority of adult men have eye dominance which matches their handedness and, once this is confirmed, are well advised to shoot with both eyes open. There are other possibilities. Some may be cross-dominant (e.g., right-handed with a left master); a few have central vision (neither eye dominating); and others may be predominantly but not fully dominant in one eye. For those shooting a standard gun who fall into one of these categories, the best advice is usually to shut or squint one eye. In women and children, absolute dominance in the eye overlooking the breech is the exception, and one-eyed shooting is often the simplest remedy too.

    Eye dominance is an intriguing phenomenon in which biological, environmental and experiential factors appear to play a role. Eye dominance in boys typically becomes more absolute with advancing years. In middle-aged men, however, it may become less absolute. It may be affected by training (disciplining oneself to sustain focus on the bird and ignore any “ghost” image), but results are unpredictable. It is (largely) unrelated to visual acuity (one can have poor vision in one eye yet it can still be more dominant as far as the control of pointing is concerned). It can vary in the same individual. It can be disturbed by fatigue, ill-health, staring at computer screens, long-distance driving and low light levels. It is not just a physical phenomenon, but a mental one as well. Having considered some of the scientific literature while researching this book, it appears that gunfitters may have a more profound understanding of eye dominance than anyone else (especially with regard to sex and age differences).

    The diagnosis of eye dominance certainly involves far more than a simple – and potentially inaccurate – observation that an individual is right or left eye dominant (any testing method that only gives “either/or” results is worthless). It is common, for example, to find a male client who has what might be called “pseudo-dominance”, i.e., when tested, one eye appears to be almost – but not quite fully – dominant. Such a condition is easily overlooked by an inexperienced or sloppy instructor (typically being misdiagnosed as full dominance). However, the effects on shooting can be profound. Typically, there will be many inexplicable misses on quartering and crossing targets where the lead does not favor the dominance.

    It is not uncommon, moreover, for shooters to be wrongly advised to switch shoulders having been told they were cross-dominant, when in fact their dominance in the opposite eye was not absolute (much better and simpler advice would have been to stick to the “strong” shoulder and squint an eye). All of which leads me to conclude that the precise diagnosis of a client’s eye dominance is one of the most vital considerations in shooting instruction. One need make no apologies for dealing with it in the most scrupulous manner….
    A right-hander with a left master eye (or a left-hander with a right master eye) has a number of options. One of the easiest, in the former case, is to shoot from the right shoulder but closing or dimming the left eye prior to firing. Rather than keeping the eye shut throughout the pickup, swing and mount, it will be better for most sporting and game shots to dim the eye as the gun comes up to the shoulder. This way one gets some of the benefits of binocular vision and has an increased field of view during the critical pickup phase. It is a definite mistake to dim the eye only at the last moment as this may be visually confusing.

    The offending eye may be covered with a patch (although instructors who inflict this on novices should try it themselves), or if the student wears spectacles, a block to vision may be placed over the appropriate lens. This need not be a full-sized patch but may be a much smaller block, refined so that it is no more than a half inch across. One may use electrician’s tape, a smudge of Vaseline, chapstick, typing correction fluid or a Magic Dot on the lens to achieve this (once the position and size are confirmed, glasses may be permanently and neatly modified by sandblasting in an optical workshop)….

    Kay Ohye, the famous trap shot, developed a “blinder” to be attached to the rib near the muzzles of over-and-unders. It has subsequently been manufactured by several firms. Another clever device consists of a U-shaped channel with a fluorescent sight at one end. This may be attached to the barrel and when in place, the brightly-coloured insert can only be seen by the eye looking along the rib. A similar effect may be achieved by using the thumb on the forend to block the vision of the eye not looking down the rib (as practiced by both Churchill and Barry Simpson)….

    A traditional remedy for those whose master eye and handedness do not correspond, is to learn to shoot from the left (or weak) shoulder with or without a suitably adapted (cast-off changed to cast-on triggers reshaped) gun. I do not usually favour this course (though it is sometimes appropriate). The advantage of binocular vision may be outweighed by the awkwardness of the manoeuvre. It is my experience that few of those who are forced to take this route develop into really first class shots (although many one-eyed shots, beating the odds, do)….

    Finally beware: not everyone who shoots as their eye dominance – as tested – might suggest. Some may be able to shoot well with both eyes open, even though initial testing without a gun indicates a dominance problem. Some will have inconsistent eye dominance (my own normally right-eyed dominance fades and can even switch when I get tired). Some will have a master eye significantly weaker than the other as far as visual acuity is concerned. Inability to focus can undermine eye dominance. (Sometimes those with contact lenses who have a slight eye dominance problem, may be advised to shoot with the left lens removed.) Some people’s eye dominance is affected by the choice of gun. Short guns and side-by-sides tend to cause more problems than the more pointable over-and-unders. Changing to longer barrels can help someone with a mild eye-dominance problem…."

    "The Shotgun, a Shooting Instructor’s Handbook", Michael Yardley, copyright 2001, Safari Press
     
  19. targetchip

    targetchip Banned User Banned

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    Tom, thank you for posting this interesting material.

    " A similar effect may be achieved by using the thumb on the forend to block the vision of the eye not looking down the rib (as practiced by both Churchill and Barry Simpson)…."

    I materialized this concept in the XDS device,being the only " blocker" that can preserve the binocular vision beside other advantages.

    Using an XDS eliminate the " handicap" of being eye cross dominate, allowing the shooter to shoot both eyes open from his handedness side, like any " normal" shooter. !!
     
  20. mayfield

    mayfield Member

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    Joe,
    Are you still shooting the 870 with EO Tech? If so, were you crossfiring with the EO Tech? I finally put my EO Tech on my AR 15 and put tape back on my glasses.
     
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