1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

Cross Dominance Myth?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by biff, Jul 14, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. biff

    biff Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,140
    Disclaimer: I'm not an authority on much of anything, but there has been much discussion in the past about the topic of "Cross Dominance" vision and how it affects trapshooting. It has been stated that most women and a good percentage of men experience this problem. Many methods have been suggested to remedy this problem ie.: Magic dots on non dominate eye, sight hider on front of rib, a Keen sight, and just plain old black electrical tape.

    A friend and I had a discussion that went something like this with me saying, "people who use their front bead for target acquisition are more prone to miss the target by cross dominance than shooters who only look at the target with both eyes(never seeing the beads/barrel when they shoot) and only see the beads when they first mount the gun to check if the mount is correct." My reasoning to him was that when watching a squad shoot targets, you see the targets perfectly and never switch eye dominance especially at a 40 or 50 yard distance and your depth perception makes your judgment right on. Also your eyes are approximately 4" apart therefore when looking at a distant object at say 50 yards there is very little change of the objects position in space no matter which eye sees it! He said I was totally way off base, I don't think so. Biff
     
  2. shark1

    shark1 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2007
    Messages:
    396
    I would ask a board certified doctor in the field. How many people can actually claim to be an expert? How many are an expert? Mike Sharkey, DC
     
  3. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,852
    I'm going along with your friend on this; sorry biff. The farther way, the more - in inches - it moves.

    Neil
     
  4. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    5,482
    Location:
    Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania
    I can only wish it was a myth.

    Ed
     
  5. RobertT

    RobertT Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2006
    Messages:
    1,355
    Cross dominance occurs when focus changes from the dominant eye to the non dominant eye. A person can be 100% focused on the target and miss due to dominace shifting. Perhaps rather than calling it cross dominance a better description would be dominace shifting. It is totally unconscious and instantanious, hardly a myth. Your friend is absolutely right.

    Robert
     
  6. fssberson

    fssberson Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,375
    Well biff, I changed from two eyes to a taped left lens because of transient cross dominance but when I was shooting two eyed and didn't use beads on my gun. Hmmmm.

    Jim Tyner
     
  7. Just-A-Shooter

    Just-A-Shooter Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2006
    Messages:
    150
    Location:
    Arizona
    Biff,

    Not sure if it was a typo or not, but the Magic Dot goes on the dominate eye. This causes the weaker eye to take over.
     
  8. RobertT

    RobertT Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2006
    Messages:
    1,355
    Biff, mount your gun. Now note that you should be looking down the rib. Assuming you shoot right handed, with the gun still mounted close your right eye. You will now be seeing what happens when cross dominance occurs. Now go run a 100 following the described method, be sure to keep the right eye closed.

    Robert
     
  9. Just-A-Shooter

    Just-A-Shooter Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2006
    Messages:
    150
    Location:
    Arizona
    EE
    That is correct. The only reason you would do that tho is if you have a problem with the eye over the rib not being your dominate eye. Or if you dominance tends to shift from eye to eye.
     
  10. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2007
    Messages:
    6,266
    Unfortunately it is not possible for us to see through someone else's eyes so understanding how cross dominant vision occurs is difficult.

    But what is obvious is that people miss their target by at least a yard when the non-dominant eye takes over. You can do some simple trig to convince yourself of how the error can be that great but basically what you have is two separate lines of sight which are not parallel. And that is where Biff's logic breaks down.

    Bottom line, cross dominant vision is not mythical, it is all too common. It is a very nasty handicap in this game of trapshooting and those that are prone to it have to work a lot harder to improve their game.
     
  11. phirel

    phirel TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,556
    As Neil stated earlier, the further away an object is, the greater distance it appears to move when eye dominance shifts. Biff, I think you missed this one.

    Pat Ireland
     
  12. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,969
    I agree with Neil and Pat that cross dominance is not a myth. I watched Phil Kiner's DVD on the subject of cross-firing at least 4 times. He made one statement that just blew me away: "The problem is Not that the left eye sees the bead, the problem is that the left eye Locks on the Bird". Phil Kiner has proof on his video camera that occasional Crossfiring does happen. A person can crossfire even though they mount the gun on the same shoulder as their supposedly Dominate eye.
     
  13. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,332
    Location:
    Shawnee, Kansas, USA
    Input from the annoying corrections guy:

    It's DOMINANT (from Webster's) - adj - being the one of a pair of bodily structures that is the more effective or predominant in action (e.g. dominant eye)

    Not dominate. Dominate is a verb. Rhymes with irritate.
     
  14. biff

    biff Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,140
    Sorry about the "M" / "N" mix-up in the subject thread.

    Don't everyone jump on the band wagon just because Neil, Pat, and Ed say so, you need to start thinking for your self. You have two eyes that work together as binocular vision.....they both converge to the same place at the same time pinpointing the exact spot, cause if they didn't you would possibly see two images of the same thing(especially at about 40 yards). People who cover the nondominate eye so it can't take over and are trying to fool the brain into thinking they are shooting with two eyes, all that does is to make you a one eyed shooter and if it is a darkend patch, it will cause the pupil of the uncovered eye to dilate as if it were in lower light.

    What I was referring to if you reread my post was "if you use the beads for target acquisition, you are more likely to experience cross dominance" more likely than if you use no beads/barrel shooting the target. Maybe those shooters are just bead checking and NOT experiencing cross dominance. I'm just speculating on this as a theory. Biff
     
  15. acss

    acss Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    Messages:
    5,986
    Location:
    rock port, mo
    is it safe to say that all the top shooters do not crossfire- when they miss- what is their "reason"? i havent seen many, if any, use the dot or tape!?
     
  16. Phil Kiner

    Phil Kiner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,211
    Biff- On video I can prove to most beyond doubt the difference between a cross-fire and a bead check. There is a difference but you have to see it to understand it.
     
  17. KEYBEAR

    KEYBEAR Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,222
    Distance is the key If your weaker eye is over the rib the more distance the target has from your eye the weaker eye lets the stronger eye take over . I have never had this problem (thank God) but I know shooters that do .
     
  18. ebsurveyor

    ebsurveyor Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    950
    Location:
    PA
    Hey Biff, Here's the trig you missed. If you eyes are 4 inches apart (you have a big head) and your bead is 36 inches from your eye. You hit the target with proper eye bead and bird alignment. Changing the eye to bead to bird relationship on a bird that is 40 yards away, you are now aiming (right to left eye change) 160 inches to the right. If you "left eye" the bird with the bead on it you will shoot 160 inches to the left of it. With three inch eye spacing you will only shoot it front 120 inches (that's 10 feet). You will need a very open choke to score a hit. I have a different problem. I can point with either eye. For many years I used the right eye in the morning and the left eye in the afternoon (for pointing a 32 or 40 powered theodolite scope). I always use both eyes open for the gun and the scope. I have trained myself to use either eye. With practice, I guess, anyone could do the same. Problem is who is willing to practice for the year or so it would take to change eyes?
     
  19. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,332
    Location:
    Shawnee, Kansas, USA
    surveyor,

    I think your math is off a bit.
     
  20. acss

    acss Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    Messages:
    5,986
    Location:
    rock port, mo
    so phil-- answer my question ,please, on top shooters- do they all tend to not have these "problems" i never see tape or the dot??
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Search tags for this page

shooting eye dominance myth

,

trap target leads