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Crimp=Rcoil?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by JJJ, Jul 11, 2009.

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  1. JJJ

    JJJ TS Member

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    Today, a very knowledgeable trapshooter,told me the tighter the crimp on your reload, the more recoil. True or false?
    Thanks,
    Joe Jordan
     
  2. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    Here comes Neil!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  3. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    If you put the AA upside down, does it reduce recoil?
     
  4. Carol Lister

    Carol Lister TS Member

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    What he DIDN'T tell you was that if you leave a tiny hole in the center of the crimp, there is no recoil at all because the shot can get out without pushing the hull open.

    Lister
     
  5. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Joe, imagine a crimp so tight and tough it never opens at all - everything stays in the shell. Such a shell wouldn't recoil at all, of course. So if the very knowledgeable shooter's opinion was based on pressure, he's wrong.

    For shells with less strong crimps than that, recoil is directly proportional to the speed of the ejecta, and crimp may affect that with shot charges of an ounce or under, mostly.

    That is, it may - or may not - be that a deep crimp changes the speed of 7/8 oz. shells; it does affect the pressure. But whether that pressure change ends up influencing the speed was not part of the experiment I read, as I remember.

    I don't have my data with me, but I think that PB was a little sensitive to crimp, but Red Dot hardly at all.

    I will predict that in a test of tight crimps vs less tight crimps, no one can tell the difference.

    Neil
     
  6. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    From the above responses to your question it is evident that some trap shooters have very small brains and are easily confused.

    The correct answer to the question depends on whether you are using a fast or slow burning powder. The amount of recoil will be inversely proportional to the burning rate of the powder. HMB
     
  7. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    Sigh...the bullshit never ends, does it?
     
  8. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Recoil is unrelated to the burning rate of the powder, Howard.

    Neil
     
  9. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    Neil, now you've done it...just whack that hornet's nest, why don't you?
     
  10. Rick Barker

    Rick Barker Well-Known Member

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    A loose crimp or one that is less tight than 40 lbs can effect the complete ignition of the powder burn, thus it could effect the velocity of the shot load. May expalin the "phoof" you hear with some shells when the crimp ends are all black, loose and broken, but the reloader seals it with wax or tape or something. You can also find unburned powder in your barrel when this happens.

    If you are going to spend good money on powder, primers and lead, don't skimp on the hull trying to load it 27 times. I load mine no more than 4 times for serious shooting, and after the fifth, which I use on doubles, I toss it.
    Some people will not reload a shell more than once, 2-3 times and toss it.

    Use your finger to pinch the end of a hull that was first fired new and one that has been reloaded 5 times or more and you will see the difference.
     
  11. Paladin

    Paladin Well-Known Member

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    I agree with sarge. If Wm C. Davis did the research and tests, it can be written in stone. Now I just have to find it on the web.
     
  12. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Rick, I see you cite forty-pound crimps.

    What are they?

    Neil
     
  13. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    Oh sure, Neil...insisting that people define the terms they use is always the last refuge of scoundrels...hmph.
     
  14. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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  15. JJJ

    JJJ TS Member

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    Thanks for all the SERIOUS replies. Now I know what they mean when they claim there are more horse's AS--- than there are horses.
    Again,thanks for the serious replies.
    Joe Jordan
     
  16. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    Just having some fun with Neil, tripleJ.
     
  17. Rick Barker

    Rick Barker Well-Known Member

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    Neil, I wish to retract my statement about the 40 lb crimp for now, until I can find the reference.......there is a good possibilty I was confusing shotshell with metallic cartridge crimp. Sorry if I mislead anyone. I will get back to you when (or maybe if) I can find that reference.
     
  18. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    JJJ, <i>you</i> may have asked that question in innocent good faith, but others like to start fires and get 'excitable' people, well, excited.

    Any question concerning increasing or reducing 'recoil', especially in the artificial and scientifically meaningless context of 'felt' recoil, is absolutely guaranteed to get fireworks going.

    Your 'knowledgeable' trapshooter friend ... wasn't - at least in the sense of recoil as defined as Newtonian physics as it is understood by ordinary and accepted definition.

    It IS possible to play with momentum and increase velocity (perhaps ... by a teeny) by increasing pressure by jacking with the crimp, ergo increasing recoil a fraction of a foot-pound, but that is not useful data, nor is the corollary true: a soft, sorry crimp reducing recoil in a competent shell.

    Bob
     
  19. Jerry Parr

    Jerry Parr Member

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    Neil...I can assure you burning rate of powder has a marked effect on felt/perceived recoil. It is more pronounced the heavier the load. Take 5 1200fps loads of 700x or Red Dot and let someone shoot em. Now, take 5 1200fps loads of International Clays or PB and let them shoot em. Less recoil, more comfortable, whatever you want to label it, the slower burning powder shells will be the shell of choice. I describe it to people with the analogy, 30lbs of force can be delivered to your belly with a sharp punch, or a slowly increasing pressure. Both equal delivered force, one hurts like hell....Jerry
     
  20. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    Don't want to steal this thread, but wad about wad pressure vs. recoil?

    Just thought I'd throw a little more BS into the discussion. Wayne
     
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