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Crappy Crimps?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by kene, Oct 4, 2011.

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  1. kene

    kene TS Member

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    Just finished using the last of my stash of original AA hulls [was out of shooting for 15 years...] and started to load some AA hulls that were made in the middle 2000s [some of them had a 40 year anniversary note on the logo]. The crimps that I have been getting on these "second generation" hulls are much worse than what I got on the original hulls -- about 15 - 20% of them are leaving a hole in the middle of the crimp that is about 1/8 inch dia so the shot can leak out. The rest of the crimp and hull looks OK so I don't think it is loader adjustment [MEC Grabber] but I could be wrong. In the mean time I am filling the hole with a couple drops of candle wax. Is this a common issue with these hulls or do I need to look at my process??

    thanks

    kene

    PS -- load is 1oz with 17.3 gr clays in a CB1100 wad.
     
  2. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    I had the same problem with the new AA's so I switched to Remington STS & Nitro. If I might suggest.........try lowering the crimp starter a little, might close up the hole?

    John C. Saubak
     
  3. Mark425

    Mark425 TS Member

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    The NEW AA's are a little different. What Old Cowboy said should fix you up. Might have to lower the starter more than you think. Switching to Rem's is the best long term move, IMO.
     
  4. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    If lowering the crimp starter doesn't work, then you need to adjust your cam on your last die. If the cam is to low it will cause swirls in your crimp, and can start crushing your hulls. If its to high it will leave a hole in your crimp. Click on the link.

    Wayne
     
  5. Allen-MX8

    Allen-MX8 Member

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    I think if you follow wayneo's (Wayne)suggestion you will get the problem fixed.

    I had similar problem and with adjustments I now get good crimps both on the new style AA hulls as well as the old style AA hulls.

    I have a MEC 9000G and just a couple of weeks ago loaded the 50,000th shell with it! (All AA's by the way).

    Allen
     
  6. kene

    kene TS Member

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    Thanks for the suggestions -- will give me something to play with this weekend after I shoot the loads I just finished. Allen -- I am hoping to get an adjustment that will work with both old and new AAs as I would not be looking forward to changing the loader every time I used different flavors of AAs. Again -- thanks

    kene
     
  7. waverider

    waverider Well-Known Member

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    Kene,

    If your new AA have a base wad and have the same boxed AA logo make sure that you inspect your barrel after EVERY shot to make sure that the base wad has not shot out into your barrel. Most of the reports came from shooters using PW and Spolar loaders.

    Second generation had an underlined AA. These seemed to have fixed the migration of the base wad problem, but Win then came out with just the AA on the shell, so they must have done something else to prevent the base wad from shooting out.
     
  8. kene

    kene TS Member

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    Wave -- thanks for that reminder. I have culled out a few of the hulls with boxed AA logo and not loaded them.

    But I have this habit of looking in my bbl after every shot while re-loading so there is a good chance that I would see if something is in the bbl.

    I'm a bit of a safety nut -- even more so since I took some shot while on the line when someone on a post next to me fired into the ground between us while has fussing with a gun that was giving him problem -- needless to say I am careful about who I go out on the line with ever since that happened
     
  9. MKillian

    MKillian TS Member

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    <blockquote>"Wave -- thanks for that reminder. I have culled out a few of the hulls with boxed AA logo and not loaded them."</blockquote>I want to make something clear about this boxed logo thing.

    This is from my own experience... don't think that the lack of a box around the AA logo indicates a "safe" hull. Winchester apparently didn't make the switch to the 2nd generation base wad (ridges around the base wad) all at one time.

    I have found hulls with underlined logos with smooth base wads.

    I have found hulls with boxed logos with 2nd generation locked-in base wads.

    I have found hulls that don't have the "HS" stamped on the base with 2nd gen locked-in base wads.

    I have never found a hull stamped "HS" with anything but a locked-in base wad.

    I've also never seen a base wad make it out of the hull after being fired although I've found several up near the crimp.

    Mike
     
  10. MKillian

    MKillian TS Member

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    When the 2 piece AA hull came out, Winchester posted some instructions for reloading them on their web site. I copied the instructions but couldn't get the photos:<blockquote>"Reloading the New AA® High Strength Hull Winchester has designed the new 12-guage AA high strength hull to reload with the same reloading data as the old AA hull. However, on some reloading machines, even though the components and reloading data are the same, there may need to be a minor adjustment made to the reloading machine to optimaze load fit and appearance.

    Some adjustments that can be made:

    Shooters need to lower the starter crimp or pie crimp (Fig 1). Proper adjustment should eliminate the slight buckle some shooter see if this adjustment is not made.

    The shell in Fig 2 shows an example of the crimp after adjusting the starter crimp stage. Shooters should not be able to put a pencil eraser down into the shell after the proper adjustment.

    Another adjustment that can be made is to the wad ram (Fig 3). Most reloading machines are setup for 25 to 30 lbs. of pressure. An increase of wad pressure (up to 45 lbs.) will help seat the wad, and will help the final crimping on the shell.

    On some reloading machines with a tapered crimp die, be sure that the final crimping stage on the reloading machine is clean and has no residue build up.

    Please contact your reloading machine manufacturer if you need additional assistance making the proper adjustments to your reloader.

    Shooter have found that after making a slight adjustment to the reloading machines good quality crimps and long reloading life are consistenly obtained with the new AA high strength hull. The old style AA hull can also be reloaded with the new adjustments."</blockquote>

    The new AA hull has less internal volume than either the 1 piece AA hull or the Remington 1 piece hull. I consider the advice regarding the increase in wad pressure to be valid if Winchester wads are being used as they were designed for the 1 piece hull. If wads like the DR XL-1 or DRA-12 are being used, no wad pressure is needed as the crush section of these wads has been made shorter to compensate for the reduction in the volume of the hull.

    I load on a P-W 900 and have found that switching from the 8 point crimp starter to the smooth cone starter intended for paper hulls greatly improves the crimps on both the new AA hulls and the Remingtons I reload. MEC also sells a smooth crimp starter.

    Mike
     
  11. kene

    kene TS Member

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    Crappy Crimps Corrected?? Lowered the crimp starter about .030 [one thick washer as my Grabber is the original model 76 version]. As of now on the second generation AA hulls it looks good - did not try on the original hulls yet as they are all loaded ...

    thanks for all the suggestions -- looks like problem is well on way to being fixed if not done now.

    kene
     
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