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Courtesy and Cooperation

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Savage99Stan, Sep 14, 2009.

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  1. Savage99Stan

    Savage99Stan Active Member

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    I read the thread last week about people closing their gun or the action of such while the person to the left is calling for the bird and wondered just how the heck people would be so inconsiderate. I'd never had it happen to me in about fifty years of shooting at ATA clubs, sportsmen's clubs, legions, muzzle loader trap shoots and so on. Then came Sunday.

    I was at my club. Member for thirty years. Good old boys. We get along. We coach each other. We have a summer league with good natured competition. We name a "top gun" each month. I've done all right through the years. Been an officer, coached many, been pistol range officer, put in my time. But I got shocked Sunday.

    I was shooting the first half of my fifty bird "program" for my team. We shoot 25 at sixteen and 25 at 20 for score and do this for six months. The averages go toward our handicap for the annual champion shoot. The teams also have awards.

    The guy to my left, I was on station one, was closing his gun and bringing it up as I called "pull". I would call, he would close his gun while raising it before I shot. I shoot at another club, ATA boys all the way, and on their "rules board" it plainly states that you may not close your gun till it is your turn to shoot. I tried the approach of raising my gun and then waiting till he lowered his and then took my call and shot. Worked for a while.

    I don't like to make waves but as we moved to the twenty yard field (I had missed a two birds and I like to think my being rattled by his gun coming up with the "clack" of the action being closed was the reason) I walked over and said, as nicely as I could, "would you mind not closing your gun and raising it until I have taken my shot?" His response was, "does that bother you?" I answered in the affirmative. He agreed. He proceeded to miss his first two birds. He then bitched about me upsetting hes rhythm. "I like to shoot fast."

    He'll never shoot as fast as me but he likes to be ready fast.

    End point. We agreed that it would be best if we never were squadded next to each other, (and I didn't say what was obvious,"not with you to my left")

    I really don't care that I bothered someone who was bothering me....I could have called him on the "distracting" rule but chose to try a friendly, sensible approach.

    Anyone else run into this. Please don't tell me to suck it up or to get in their face....I've done all that over the years many times in management anbd in social organizations. We have enough problems with a-holes in the government doing just that. I'd just like an opinion or two on how to handle this in the future.
     
  2. Savage99Stan

    Savage99Stan Active Member

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    Sorry, I was to his left...I was on one, he was on two.
     
  3. Savage99Stan

    Savage99Stan Active Member

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    It wasn't that the gun was closed...it was that he was raising and closing it as I called for the bird. I'd call pull and in the split second before I got to shoot he'd be raising and closing. Maybe I need blinders and total sound proofed earmuffs.
     
  4. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    No, Stan, he needs manners. I've had that happen to me and I didn't want to make a big deal out of it any more than you. I just changed my routine a little.

    Instead of closing my gun when the shooter two posts ahead of me shot and mounting it after the shooter immediately ahead of me shot, I didn't close it until after the shooter immediately ahead of me shot. That screwed up the problem guy because he found himself with his gun mounted before mine was and knew how that looked to everyone else.

    One post like that is usually all it takes. On the few occasions when the condition persisted, I would lower my gun as soon as I noticed upward movement from his in my peripheral vision. Once or twice is all that seems to be required to get the message across.

    Ed
     
  5. recurvyarcher

    recurvyarcher Well-Known Member

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    I posted on another thread about this. Yes, I have had the same problem. Both times, I tried putting my gun back down so that they would get the message. Both times, they continued. The first kid was an ATA hotshot who got angry when I asked him in between a station change to wait for me, and his mom sent me hate-stares for the rest of the week, and he stopped for about 4 shots after that, then continued to mount his gun while I was taking my shot. The second one, I waited to tell her in between rounds, as Martin told me that it would be best not to say something during station changes. She got really mad at me and wouldn't talk to me or look at me until after the event was over (and she was a friend of mine).

    After that, I decided that it wasn't worth pissing off a friend, and I made myself some oversized blinders. That helped.

    THEN one day, I learned what it really means to focus hard on a target. The light just came on for some reason. Now I don't notice anything...even stuff in the background like birds in the path or plastic bags flying around. I haven't taken the blinders off, but I truly don't think that I need them anymore, unless it's for blocking glare.
     
  6. over the hill

    over the hill Active Member

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    I have experienced this over the years, and it is annoying.

    I dont wear blinders because when using firearms I like to be aware of what is going on around me.

    If this is a problem at clubs signs that everyone can see should be posted.

    Some people just dont understand verbally.


    Regards....Gerald
     
  7. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    Fortunately, I'm left handed, don't generally notice what's going on behind me. But, I've found it's best to just keep my gun down to avoid distracting or bothering the guy before me since he's looking right at me....

    A small price to pay, keeps me from getting too fast...
     
  8. Savage99Stan

    Savage99Stan Active Member

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    Thanks folks. I've been doing this stuff, trap, for upwards of fifty years and this is the first guy I've run into that couldn't take a hint....I lowered my gun a couple times, and finally had the discussion. I think I'll be a little quicker to call someone on it in the future and not lose those two birds.

    What really amazed me was that he told me afterward that in asking him to not raise his gun til I'd shot I had disrupted his rythm. TS.
     
  9. sliverbulletexpress

    sliverbulletexpress TS Member

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    I've had a few people that were just shocked, they had no idea they were raising their guns before or while I was trying to shoot. Those few thanked me for they did not want to bother anyone else, so there are some good souls out there. I feel the same.

    Then they are the others that don't care about anyone else, will give you a smart azz answer and let you know they have the right to do whatever they please. In my later years I take those types as a challenge and give them my best phycological warfare counter attack.

    "Are you going to shoot my target for me?" " if so please smoke it good" is a good opener.

    You know what? I haven't had a Viet Nam flashback in years until I saw the barrel of your gun when I was trying to catch up with that hard right, it looked just like a AK47. Thanks for getting my mind back where it belongs, always ready for an ambush. Big crazy grin.

    While your tracking my bird for me would you watch and see if I'm doing it right and do you know what this sticker on my new gun means that big orange R?

    I'm crosseyed as hell so any help you can give me finding those hard rights I would appreciate, just point them out with your barrel like you have been doing and give me an idea of how much lead I need if you don't mind.

    Don't tell anyone but I had a few too many cold ones in the beer tent if you know what I mean, I would have sworn I saw your gun barrel when I was chasing that hard right!! HEHEHEHEee this is fun aint it? What's next pink elephants?hahahaha

    I'm sure glad they let me out of the nervous hospital to shoot today.


    I have more but have to keep some in reserve just in case the enemy is reading this.
     
  10. Remstar311

    Remstar311 Member

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    It doesn't bother me a bit. It is inconsiderate however.
     
  11. sliverbulletexpress

    sliverbulletexpress TS Member

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    Well my first post was to have a little fun with this but this is how I really feel.

    I'm man enough to admit it bothers me, yeh sure I should learn to block everything out and all that blame the victim crap, but in the end everyone should follow the rules and more than that show common courtesy and good sportsmanship. Yes, good sportsmanship.

    If you're raising your gun up early before your turn or moving around or doing anything to distract your fellow shooter..... you're crap for sportsmanship as far as SBE is concerned.

    SBE AKA silverbulletexpress
     
  12. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    When I am struggling, if a shooter moves his gun too soon it bothers me a lot. When I am shooting well and my concentration is on the area just above the trap house as I mount my gun, I never see anything off to the side.

    It is very possible that I would shoot better if the shooter to my right would raise his gun and wave the white towel on his waist and force me to concentrate only on the area where the bird will come out.

    Pat Ireland
     
  13. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

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    Hey... we're paying for this entertainment. I've been fortunate that I get to shoot mostly with friends and I know what to expect with their routines, but shooting at a public range, I'm not reticent to make a "gentlemanly" comment about foot position, gun mount, shell catchers - you name it.

    I've walked off lines after nicely speaking with folks who should never have been allowed to register and asked others (nicely) to walk off my line until they know how to operate their gun - not always easy...

    Competition is different, I understand we don't get to always choose who'll we'll be shooting with, but if another shooter is impairing someone's ability to shoot, that appears to be an express violation...

    Seems the envelope is always getting pushed... nothing wrong with pushing back.
    People, in general, are less courteous than ever... But that's another thread!

    regards all,

    Jay
     
  14. samiam03

    samiam03 Member

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    The last thing I want to do is upset the shooter to my left and then to my right. What is the accepted loading sequence for a semi-auto in doubles?
     
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