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Court rules:O must be

Discussion in 'Politics, Elections & Legislation' started by J.Woolsey, Jan 4, 2012.

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  1. J.Woolsey

    J.Woolsey Member

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    Check this out. Very interesting. J.W.
     
  2. daddiooo

    daddiooo TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    AAHHHH, the plot thickens.

    Good to see Tennessee, Arizona and N Hampshire challenge his legitimacy as well. Arizona is still pissed about the feds suing over the immigration law.
    This issue seems to be gathering steam.
     
  3. mallard2

    mallard2 Active Member

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    Well, there are all kinds of judges, and eventually one will give a ruling you like. But here's the deal, Courts have ruled for over a hundred years that those born in the US are US citizens. Why waste money on this type of thing!

    Also, If the born in the US ruling were reversed, just to get O, millions of Americans would suddenly not be citizens. Not cool.

    If he is not the best man for president, don't elect him. It's called "Democracy".
     
  4. coling

    coling Member

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    There is a significant difference between

    (1)being a citizen and

    (2)being a native born citizen.

    That is the question being asked.

    Think of a magician - he wants you to focus on something - in this case the birth certificate and where born - and not focus on who his father was and the definition of "natural born"
     
  5. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    No coling, there isn't a significant difference. There is only one difference and that is eligibility to be President.
     
  6. grunt

    grunt TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    TTT sure would make my day..
     
  7. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    what a can of worms you guys want opened....

    So how many TS.commers have parents who were not U.S Citizens when they were born?
     
  8. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Who cares about OUR parents. It's OBAMA that's the issue.
     
  9. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    ANY QUESTIONS?
     
  10. ou.3200

    ou.3200 Well-Known Member

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    "Courts have ruled for over a hundred years that those born in the US are US citizens."

    Perhaps, but being a citizen is not the criteria set forth in the Constitution. The Constitution requires someone to be a "Natural Born Citizen" to be eligible to be President. The accepted definition at the time the Constitution was drafted was a citizen born of citizen parents (note the plural, "parents"). That definition is supported in a Supreme Court case, Minor v. Happersett 1875.
     
  11. J.Woolsey

    J.Woolsey Member

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    Most of you naysayers don't seem to get the meaning of "Natural Born Citizen" as opposed to US Citizen. That is where the line is drawn, Only a "NATURAL BORN CITIZEN" may hold the office of President. No argument as to whether or not Ossama was a US citizen was made here. The suit is over his being eligible as a "Natural Born Citizen" Which by law it appears he is not. This is not another "Birther" issue, as some of you are seem to think. I just hope and pray the good judge prevails.
     
  12. mallard2

    mallard2 Active Member

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    Well said Rick.
     
  13. J.Woolsey

    J.Woolsey Member

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    Rick Barker, here is the part most haven't read or didn't quite understand.

    “Georgia has determined that it is in the best interest of its citizens to screen candidates prior to placement on the ballot.

    “Because it is undisputed that Mr. Obama’s father was not a U.S. citizen, the defendant can never be a natural-born citizen, as that term was defined by the U.S. Supreme Court. Therefore, the defendant cannot meet the constitutional requirements to hold the office of president. See U.S. Const. Art. II Section 1.5 Georgia election code requires such a candidate to be stricken from any Georgia ballot.”

    The U.S. Supreme Court opinion cited is Minor v. Happersett from 1875. It includes one of very few references in the nation’s archives that addresses the definition of “natural-born citizen,” a requirement imposed by the U.S. Constitution on only the U.S. president.

    That case states:

    The Constitution does not in words say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners.
     
  14. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Yet his aunt says he was born in Kenya. Go figure.
     
  15. Stl Flyn

    Stl Flyn Well-Known Member

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    Mom is the difference, not the Dad.

    They where married on Feb 2, 1961, Barack was born August 6, 1961. By these requirements he is a "Naturalized" citizen.

    If this information was available back when he was on the ballots, why was this not brought up then?

    There is no definition of "Natural Born Citizen" in the United States Constitution. The ASSUMED definition at the time the Constitution was drafted was a citizen born of citizen parents. I would think that there may have been a few early Presidents that where not "Natural Born" either.

    As to "naturalization vs natural born"

    Article I, section 8, clause 4 of the United States Constitution expressly gives the United States Congress the power to establish a uniform rule of naturalization.

    The Immigration and Naturalization Act sets forth the legal requirements for the acquisition of, and divestiture from, citizenship of the United States.

    The requirements have become more explicit since the ratification of the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution, with the most recent changes to statutory law having been made by the United States Congress in 2001.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    For persons born between December 24, 1952 and November 14, 1986, a person is a U.S. citizen if all of the following are true (except if born out-of-wedlock)

    1. The person's parents were married at the time of birth

    2. One of the person's parents was a U.S. citizen when the person was born

    3. The citizen parent lived at least ten years in the United States before the child's birth;

    4. A minimum of 5 of these 10 years in the United States were after the citizen parent's 14th birthday.

    See following post.
     
  16. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    Auctioneer - TV news said not such thing. That's a crap out.
     
  17. Stl Flyn

    Stl Flyn Well-Known Member

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    As stated above, it does not define "Natural Born". As a matter of fact it seems more in line with where you are born. Not where your parents are born.

    Actual provision: No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.6

    Qualifications:
    The President must be a natural born citizen of the United States, at least 35 years old and a resident of the United States for at least 14 years. An obsolete part of this clause provides that instead of being a natural born citizen, a person may be a citizen at the time of the adoption of the Constitution. The reason for this clause was to extend eligibility to Citizens of the United States at the time of the adoption of the Constitution, regardless of their place of birth, who were born under the allegiance of a foreign sovereign before the founding of the United States. Without this clause, no one would have been eligible to be president until thirty-five years after the founding of the United States.
     
  18. J.Woolsey

    J.Woolsey Member

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    One of the comments posted below the Birthers Hail Decision article. This fellow can read and comprehend what is written regarding the judges decision. And explains it nicely.

    Johnny wishbone says:
    January 4, 2012 at 3:16 pm

    My My My, how ignorant of history we are!!!!!!
    First to those who say he is born on US soil he is a citizen, that is true, however the constitution requires citizenship to be a congressman or senator, but only the president has the “natural Born” requirement. The fact there are 2 definitions means,….. there is an additional requirement for president and citizen and natural born citizen are in fact not interchangable.
    So, what does it mean?? Why is it there?? Well, it was a protection put in place by our very wise founders. Imagine, our country just formed, and an American woman married a British citizen and they had a child lets say on American soil and then this child grew up and ran for president… Well, the founders would never allow a person to be president who’s father was the subject of the British crown, where his loyalties could be influenced by a foreign power. That is why it is there, that is what it means.
    So Obama being born in Hawaii or on the moon is irrelevant, his father ironically was a subject of the British crown in Kenya, was not an American citizen, therefore making Obama ineligible to be president because he is not a natural born citizen, meaning his birth mother and birth father were not US citizens.
    So there we have it boys and girls… Our founders were smart, they didn’t wake up yesterday. They did everything for a reason and once you take the time to read their words and understand “why”, it makes sense. They were geniuses and knew more of why empires rise and fall than we ever will and they took pains to protect our future. But ignorance and apathy have made it impossible to understand the terms used. So, now we have a illegitimate president whos loyalty is not to America, but to a foreign ideology fostered by his socialist non US citizen father. Just the situation the founders in their wisdom sought to protect us from… but here it is… we have a hugo chavez wannabe.
     
  19. JACK

    JACK Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    Shooting Coach. That is disgusting. Delete it while you can
     
  20. porky

    porky TS Member

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    One of the reasons that bozo was so happy to bomb Libya was because Gadafi made the mistake of having a big public forum and making a movie of his speech. In his talk Gadafi boasted how proud he was of "his friend bozo". Of how bozo was a muslim born in Kenya and educated in Indonesia by muslims. I guess bozo was threatened by that.
     
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