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Could the IRS hold our Grand American hostage?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by DuckDog, Jul 27, 2010.

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  1. DuckDog

    DuckDog Active Member

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    If the IRS decides to investigate recent allegations that the ATA has violated IRS code and laws pertaining to 501(c)(3) companies, and this investigation were to start before or during this year's Grand American, could the IRS freeze the accounts and assets of the ATA during their investigation? If so, would the ATA still be able to accept entry and option money at the Grand and pay out option money won? Could the IRS effectively shut down our Grand American tournament even though their investigation may eventually reveal absolutely no wrong doing by the ATA?


    If the IRS removes the 501(c)(3) status from the ATA what would happen to the Martin's very generous gift of $100,000.00? If the Martin's wanted to show the 100K as a gift to a charitable organization, would that choice and subsequent tax benefit no longer be available to them?


    Is any of this possible?


    Don Cogan
     
  2. hunter44

    hunter44 Well-Known Member

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    Is that what you & other Ohio shooters would want?
     
  3. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Well I have an idea why don't asking questions that they are free to read. After all it would seem that every question you ask is another idea you give them for shutting everything down.

    Why don't you call them and ask the questions that would put all the nails in the coffin lid of the ATA. Are you trying to get us shut down????? BTW this is a public forum and they can read it as well as anyone else can.

    Bob Lawless
     
  4. recurvyarcher

    recurvyarcher Well-Known Member

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    I was thinking the same thing that Bob Lawless wrote...
     
  5. Bob Schultz

    Bob Schultz Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    Even though they are the only agency of the US Government that moves with any degree of alacrity ... they would have a tough time interfering with this year's Grand.

    However, with the Obama tax priorities stepped up to collect every dime for all the socialist welfare give-away programs, you can bet the IRS will investigate and collect every dime due if there was an issue with the expenses of the EC.

    Bob
     
  6. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    Possible? Sure - anything CAN happen with IRS.

    'tis Very Unlikely, for a host of reasons.

    <i> "... recent allegations that the ATA has violated IRS code and laws pertaining to 501(c)(3) companies ... </i> is a stretch. A.Big.Stretch. There is a big difference between having some compliance & 'best practice' issues and criminal conduct.

    Over the past few years, the whole C-3 & C-4 structure has been overhauled, and there are about a third as many C-3/4 as there were. Getting up-to-speed with all the new regs (incl many that have not been written) is a process, and IRS recognizes that, too.

    That ATA IS a C-3 is a serious boon, and it was not trivial to get it. ATA books are clean - Glatz & Judy Harden & Tom Burkey see to that (and deserve our thanks) - expenses & compensation, etc. is, at worst, a 'quibble'

    Reluctantly, through the good offices of SheWhoMustBeObeyed, I am involved in a couple of C-3, so I see the confusion & conflict both in & out.

    Bob
     
  7. DuckDog

    DuckDog Active Member

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    What possible bearing could my feelings, or any regular ATA member's feelings have on this situation? You constantly tell Ohio shooters to "get over it", we have. Why don't you move on too! This an ATA EC issue that needs to be addressed quickly so that we can avoid any of the scenarios above.

    Don Cogan
     
  8. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    "'tis Very Unlikely, for a host of reasons."

    It would seem to me that someone said that the financial records of the Association do not belong on a public forum. Well seeing how someone else here chose to post it anyway then the IRS doesn't have to worry about searching for proof now do they.

    Bob Lawless
     
  9. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    [revised & updated] ....

    Don, I assume what you asked was an honest, open question with pure, curious motives ...

    Bob
     
  10. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    <blockquote>"It would seem to me that someone said that the financial records of the Association do not belong on a public forum. Well seeing how someone else here chose to post it anyway then the IRS doesn't have to worry about searching for proof now do they."</blockquote>

    Nothing posted on this forum has a snowball's chance in hell of even being considered as credible evidence.

    None of you has any control over any of this; why waste time and energy in speculation and worry about it!?

    MK
     
  11. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    Bob, the multitudinious things that 'seem' to you rarely - if ever - reflect reality, convention, common sense, and, in this particular & specific instance of 'seeming', pointedly, reflect an ignorance of accounting & reporting for 501(c)(3) corporations.
     
  12. shelly

    shelly TS Member

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    I thought the ATA was a "public charity". If so, then it's records are not secret.
     
  13. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    peerless, ... we agree that ATA's books are clean.

    However, when your auditor says THIS report is misleading, and needs to be restated to comply with GAAP and further, your polices and procedures are non-compliant with one-to-several legal requirements for a C-3 corp, the intelligent course of action by the EC is ... ?

    We also agree that Glatz's efforts are PROscriptive, as they should be, but he was (also) properly and pointedly describing a pretty significant (and potentially expensive) pothole in the road from then-til-now.

    It all boils down to a simple fact: if you are going to enjoy being a taxpayer-subsidised business, there are new & additional rules & regs that have to be followed.

    At the end of the day, you & I don't disagree much, actually.

    Bob
     
  14. Quick 1

    Quick 1 Active Member

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    The originator of this thread calls it our Grand American, yet it appears he has never shot it since it moved to Illinois. Why would he worry if the IRS freezes the money from the Grand? Mabee a shark smelling blood in the water!
     
  15. TNCoach

    TNCoach Member

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    Don,

    I think that it's more likely that the IRS will review those EC officers past tax accounts and determine if there is enough evidence for a full blown tax audit.

    I'm not going to throw the first stone, but I've heard that anyone turning in someone suspected of a tax violation will receive a portion of the recovered funds.

    I would however prepare to watch the state come in and make sure they receive their fair share of the 100k.

    God Bless,
    TNCoach
     
  16. DuckDog

    DuckDog Active Member

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    Quick 1,

    Maybee the originator has been too busy donating all his free time and vacation time to performing his duties as a member of the OSTA BOD and could not attend the Grand the last few years. I have no idea who you are since you don't have the courage or common decency to sign your real name to your post. If you want to compare which one of us has done more to support trapshooting and the ATA I stand ready to listen to you. To support our organization means way more than attending the Grand once a year.


    Some folks on here seem to think the ATA's only defense from the IRS is to hide in the shadows and hope they don't get caught. At this point, I am not willing to conceed that any wrong doing has taken place. My questions were designed to get shooters to think about what could happen if we were to cross some governmental line and get sideways of the IRS. It seems that some of the staunchest supporters of the ATA on this site are willing to admit that any contact with the IRS will certainly lead to the demise of the ATA. Why is that?


    Don Cogan
     
  17. hunter44

    hunter44 Well-Known Member

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    It appears that you are what I thought you were.
     
  18. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    Ok, we've agreed. Lets all stick our head in the sand till this goes away. That always works!
     
  19. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    Don, you need to take a rest, buddy ... after whaling away at those straw men you constructed, you have to be wore out this happy Tuesday.

    Bob
     
  20. Brad Dysinger

    Brad Dysinger Member

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    Setterman, I think the plan let's hope the IRS leaves us alone is a wonderful plan to save and grow the ATA, the grand, trap shooting. Look how well it's worked so far.

    I don't like to stick my head in the sand though because I can't see who's about to kick my ass.

    But Setterman did you really expect more after they turned down your offer for free HOF work last year? Ezekiel 33 (Brad Dysinger) just trying out my new ts.com handle
     
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