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Could someone explain to me event #5 Lewis Payout

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Dr.Longshot, Aug 9, 2011.

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  1. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    Program reads 5 lewis classes 50-50-50-50-50 Hi-Gun by my calculations that is $1992 per lewis class.

    I am speaking about event #5 Handicap payout. Preliminary of the grand.

    I guess you need to know how many to a class. I would think the high score got the first lewis class which would have been $1992

    I don't understand this payout the way the program is listed.

    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  2. Trapshooter1

    Trapshooter1 Member

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    I think it is susposed to read 5 lewis classes split "50 50 50 50 50" is suppose to read 20 20 20 20 20. Just a guess because if you look at event 5 the top lewis was split to three different scores. The first two people got 20% each and the next eight people split 60%. I do not know if they posted that it was an error or not. I am not sure but I think thats the way it went.
     
  3. V10

    V10 Well-Known Member

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    My program reads:

    LEWIS OPTION (5 Classes) ... $20 divided 20/20/20/20/20 high gun, each Class

    I'm going to guess that you don't know what a High Gun payout is. That surprises me.
     
  4. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

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    Dr. Longshot has many times posted on this site, informing everyone how shoots (such as the Ohio State) should format their lewis payouts. And the same guy needs a lewis payout explained to him?

    Very suprising . . . or maybe not.

    Scott
     
  5. tom berry

    tom berry Active Member

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    Gary,

    The top class pd the 100 $398, 99 $398, 98 $149(8) = $1,988
    2nd class 93 $43 (46) = $1,978
    3rd class 90 $64 (31) = $1,984
    4th class 88 $59 (34) = $2,006
    5th class 85 $117 (17) = $1,989

    Seems pretty simple to me.
     
  6. Neal Crausbay

    Neal Crausbay Member

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    Gary, I can't find the details of the Grand Lewis Class which if I recall, is a bit different from the norm. Obviously, the top three scores in this instance took the first class whereas the remaining 4 classes were paid to only one score in each class.

    I am posting below the rules for a Lewis Class which are used throughout trapshooting, but again, the Grand makes changes to better accomodate the large number of entries.

    *******************************************************************************

    Basically, the Lewis is a lottery. Although it always rewards the high score in the event, all the other winners are the result of the luck of the draw.

    The number of Classes must be stated. If 5 classes then at least 5 different scores will be paid even if High Gun each class. The program should state 5 Classes if the split is 20,20,20,20,20 and either Hi Gun or percentage each class.

    Today’s flood of high scores does typically limit how far down the list of scores a Lewis will pay.

    Procedure to pay a Lewis:

    Entry fee times number of people playing the option determines total amount in the Option, divided by number of classes to get value of each Class.

    Step 1: List scores in descending numerical order.

    Step 2: Determine the classes. If there were 300 entries and 5 classes, there would be 60 scores in each class. The high score in each class would be the winner.

    Since there is usually an odd number of entries and numerous ties, the following 4 rules are applied in this order.

    RULE 1: If an odd number of entries necessitate one or more short classes, the short classes head the list.

    RULE 2: Whenever the division line falls among tie scores, the contestants are assigned to the class containing the majority of the scores.

    RULE 3: When an equal number of scores appear on either side of the line, these scores constitute the head of the lower class.

    RULE 4: In spite of changes caused to classes affected by the above rules, the remainder of the original divisions remains as they were for the rest of the classes.
     
  7. Beagleman

    Beagleman TS Member

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    I thought if the program says high-gun then the hi score would take all the money for that class. i.e., 1-100 should get 100% of the first class since it states high-gun. If it were percentage then it would pay the 1-100 50% of the first class money and so on .....RIGHT?
     
  8. perga1

    perga1 Active Member

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    Hi gun split 20,20,20,20,20 means the high score in the Lewis CLASS gets 20% of the money but if there are 5 or more scores the same that are high for the class they take and split all 100% of the money. That's why the 2nd through 5th Lewis classes paid only one score. JRM
     
  9. V10

    V10 Well-Known Member

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    "High gun" means guns, i.e, people are paid.

    "Percentage", or "Percentage System" means scores are paid.

    As JRM indicated, 20/20/20/20/20 percent, high gun means that the top 5 "guns" will be paid.

    If it was stated as Percentage System, or just "percentage", with no mention of "high gun" then the top five scores would be paid.
     
  10. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    The high gun system is not like the percentage system many are used to. The percentage system is used a lot because most people don't want to do the calsulations of the high gun system.

    I used the high gun system in my winter shoots for a long time, and it was preferred by the shooters.

    The Gun Digest book of Skeet and Trap shooting by Art Blatt has a very good explanation of the HG system.

    HM
     
  11. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    Neal & others thanks for the clarification, I was thinking the top score took 100% of one lewis class. The way it is worded had me confused, and I stand corrected it was 20-20-20-20-20 5 Classes hi-gun.

    In my frame of mind working with lewis classes Hi score took 20% or $1992

    The second lewis class would come down according to shooters playing the lewis.

    It just seemed odd the way this lewis class paid out.


    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  12. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    LS:

    I simply don't follow how you found that "odd". It is a basic HG payout just like we've been using for decades. I understand new shooters or shooters who don't pay attention to the options being confused, but not someone used to the betting side of the game?

    Maybe part of the confusion is there are 5 classes (20% of pot in each) AND each individual class itself pays up to 5 places (20% of the 20% in that class). If it was 20,20,20,20,20% each class on a percentage method, 25 scores would pay (5 in each class). But since it's High Gun (as it should be) as few as 1 score per class (as low as 5 scores in total) could get paid. This would happen if there were at least 5 shooters tied for high score in each class.
     
  13. missed some

    missed some TS Member

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    gonna be a lot of disappointed shooters who think it is a regular lewispayout(percentage). The bad scores aren't gonna pay in a highgun lewis.That lone 83 that pays so well at other places probably won't pay here.
     
  14. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    Mark, you're correct that less scores get paid in a HG, but the lower classes will still be generally in the same area. It's just that the bottom class won't pay 5 scores itself. If 5 83's hit that last lewis, they'll get paid well in a HG format. Face it, at the Grand, any percentage payout would be spread pretty thin, although the scores were unusually low.

    Just so readers don't get confused, HG does not mean the top scores take all the money in the pot, unless there is only 1 Class. The pot is still divided into classes and that money stays there.
     
  15. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    870 I have seen in the past years of top score in class get 100% of first place money, That is what had me stumped. This type of payout to the lone top score
    is puzzling, especially since it is a Hi-gun system.

    To me 2 98s would have split $1992 the first lewis class money. It does not say 5 places in each class. It says Hi-Gun.

    I am not stating there were 2 98s, I was using that as an example.

    If that is true in this example there are 3 98s Hi gun system paying 5 classes of 20-20-20-20-20 the top 3 scores would take the first, second, and third 20%
    or in other words 60%. That is how a true Hi-gun system works.

    Now a modified lewis class is different, and this may be a modified lewis class.

    I was caught by suprise at the payout, I have seen a lot larger payouts for first place lewis class, Especially at Middletown Ohio for the Mid American.


    GB
    DLS
     
  16. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    "I have seen a lot larger payouts for first place lewis class, especially at Middletown Ohio for the Mid American."

    Did they have 2200 shooters per event and 1600+ of them in the Lewis there?? As stated before with so many shooters the payouts have gotten "watered down" or spread thin.
     
  17. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    LS, you said - "It does not say 5 places in each class. It says Hi-Gun."

    Come on, read the program - it very clearly states 5 Classes, 20,20,20,20,20 EACH CLASS, High Gun. That means EACH of the 5 classes is further split 5 ways. 3 ties for top score in a class take the first 3 monies in THAT class combined, but there are still 2 monies left in that class.

    This is not new, it's just there are more monies than you are used to in a Lewis Class. At smaller shoots it usually 60/40 (or 2 places) in each class, whether HG or percentage.

    I'll add this: it sounds like you confused the 20,20,20,20,20 part to mean that was how the entire pot of lewis money is broken down. That is incorrect. The percentages listed like that (20/20/20/20/20; 60/40; etc.), generally refer to the breakdown in each individual lewis class, not the entire lewis pot. This is because they already told you there would be "5 Classes", they don't repeat it again in numerical format. Actually, you'll find it more often like this: "1 money every 5 entries, 60%/40% High Gun" or "1 money every 5 entries, 60%/40%, Percentage. The percentages listed refer to the payouts in each class. The number of classes is determined by how many classes they say or in other cases by the formula (1 money every 5 entries)

    In a High-Gun Purse or a Jackpot Purse, the pot is not split into different classes, so in those type of options when it says 40/30/20/10 High Gun or 40/30/20/10 Percentage there is only one pot of money being split accordingly. In this example, those options will pay at most the top 4 scores, less in HG if there are ties. That may be closer to what you were thinking about.
     
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