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correcting a bad habit, advice please!!!!

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by reddeath, May 22, 2012.

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  1. reddeath

    reddeath TS Member

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    Hello All,

    My son 15 has been doing very well at trap earlier this year that is. His scores began to drop and I could not see why. That is until reciently. Now his bad habit has become so pronounced that anyone can see it. He seems to be wipping the gun when or even as he fires. On a straight away target you would swear he must be shooting 5" magnums (I know there is no such thing). He follows the target and fires and after wards the gun is almost vertically in the air. As for hard cuts when he fires he throws the gun to the side like he is attempting to hit the guy next to him. Everyone has told him about it but he says it does not feel like he is doing anything wrong.

    Has anyone else seen this bad habit in action?
    How can we go about fixing it?
    There has been no change in gun, gear or ammo. He uses standard 2-3/4 1145fps loads.
    Any advice would be great.

    Thanks
     
  2. gdbabin

    gdbabin TS Member

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    Was he at Elysburg this past weekend???


    I saw a young man doing the same thing. I would not shoot next to anyone doing what I saw, i.e. swinging the gun clearly over toward the adjacent shooter.


    I'd make a video of it and show him. I'd also tell him that if he does not quit immediately, he will not shoot period.


    All that swinging means he is not "in" the gun correctly. Gun fit may be an issue. Bringing attention to himself is likely a bigger factor.


    If he were my son, I'd tell him you must stop immediately. It is unsafe, terrible technique and unacceptable. I'd also agree to take him to the practice trap at the local club and help him unlearn this bad habit one shot at a time.



    Good luck Dad,


    Guy Babin
     
  3. reddeath

    reddeath TS Member

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    Yep! That was him, sad to say! He won the sub-jounior runner up last year. Now look, what a differance a year made.

    Please be assured that I am working very hard on this with him.

    Thanks for the input.
    Craig
     
  4. reddeath

    reddeath TS Member

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    I thought the same thing as you did Guy. I did take a video I am hoping that when he sees it he might understand what he is doing.
     
  5. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    He's flinching.

    Get him on a diet of light 1ozers and fix his gunfit..
     
  6. Anthony12ga

    Anthony12ga Member

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    I've had other people say that if you keep following a piece of the broken target after it breaks, that it will help you stay "in the gun" as the shot is fired. Maybe doing that would help your son.
     
  7. gdbabin

    gdbabin TS Member

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    edited below:
     
  8. gdbabin

    gdbabin TS Member

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    What I saw was NOT a flinch. It's also not caused by 1 1/8 loads in my opinion.


    He is not a small and frail young man--he should be able to handle the load. That is not to say that using 1 oz loads wouldn't be prudent in general.


    Another clue is what Craig said about last year. If nothing has changed in loads or gun, then there must be some other explanation.


    Does he have a tendency to relish the center of attention?


    Quite often I've seen young people develop unique and quirky "techniques". It's part of a primal need some teenagers have to create a sense of identity and uniqueness--very similar to the off-beat fashions some choose.


    If the kid is not one to relish attention, and with all gun fit possibilities completely pursued, it then boils down to his lack of exercised self control and discipline on the firing line.


    Guy
     
  9. Texshooter

    Texshooter Member

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    We have an instructor named Britt down here at Tahoka Texas that would kick him in the butt everytime he did that. I'm pretty sure he would loose that habit in a short time. AJ
     
  10. RickN

    RickN Well-Known Member

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    I think Mr Babin has got the right diagnosis.
     
  11. Raymobolt

    Raymobolt TS Member

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    I would have to say it is due to the gunfit. Again he is 1 and you know how much he's grown in he last year needless to say over a couple of months. Growing up shooting at a young age (11) I've had to refit my gun with much help from my parents and friends countless times (sometimes 4 times a year from height changes, weight changes, and muscle mass changes.
    Exactly as you stated, it starts out of nowhere and you don't feel as if you're doing anything wrong. I'm not saying that his head hasn't swollen but it's my opinion that his body geometry has changed and the gun needs to change with him.
    ~Ray
     
  12. reddeath

    reddeath TS Member

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    I doubt it is an attitude thing, he just isn't that kind of boy. Gun fit may be the proper diagnosis. However, I would not count out the flinch idea so quickly. On Wednesday we went out to our gun club to see what we could do to try and fix the problem. Showed him video but he still was not feeling what was going on. After many suggestions and ideas the swing was greatly reduced. It was all but gone by our last few shots. The one thing that really helped was I had him shooting at the targets with out ammo. When he did this the wild swing was gone! Stupid me, thought that after just one box of shells with no swing I had fixed the problem. As I found out on Friday it might take a few more boxes.

    Thanks for all the advice!

    The kick in the pants idea is ok but I was thinking, a better Idea might be a dog training collar! Swing then Zap. LOL!!
     
  13. gdbabin

    gdbabin TS Member

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    Your technique seems sound to me. A Terry Jordan wall chart would be a great training device for him--I know it is for me, when I use it, that is...


    I did not mean an "attitude" as in a bad one, but more of a signature move that he's making all his--kind of like figuring out your signature as we grow up.


    I saw another kid this weekend that had a crazy bouncing routine he employed for some reason as he mounted his gun.


    Others do the flamboyant catch the spent shell in mid air gimmick, with still others who do the elaborate gun mount evolution. There are the "funny" call individuals too. To each, their own.


    None of this is bad in and of itself as long as it does not interfere with other shooters and does not transgress safety.


    Dry firing with steady staying in the gun (without swinging) is a great idea. A Terry Jordan chart is highly recommended. If you'd like I would gladly lend you mine until he got one of his own.


    All the best.
     
  14. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    Hard to say without actually watching him but I have the impression he's making a WAY exagerated "follow thru'". Sometimes people take things to un-nessesary extreme. I'd bet if you asked him why he does that he'd say he's just "following thru' ..........
     
  15. oskerspap12

    oskerspap12 Active Member

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    Thats a nice offer there Guy..........YOU are one of those special people in the trapshooting community that everybodies always talking about! I'm really thankful I know folks like y'all.It makes the game that much more special to me.

    Smoke 'em all

    D.P.Reynolds
     
  16. Shooting Sailor

    Shooting Sailor Well-Known Member

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    I shoot with a guy who has developed the same sort of exaggerated swing after a shot. He starts an event okay, but gradually works his way into the ridiculous swing after a shot. Part of it seems to be a recoil related flinch, but it is also related to how well he shoots that day. If he is on center, he has very little motion after a shot, but if he misses a couple, he quickly develops the excessive follow through swinging. It is also worst on second shot on doubles, which points to a recoil flinch. After he starts, it is with him for the rest of the shoot, or longer.

    If it was my kid, I would have a stockfitter check out his gun fit, before I did anything else. If he shot well last year with all the same components, the only thing that has changed is him! At that qage, kids grow in spurts, and while it may not look like much has changed in his body, the body-gun geometry has changed a lot. Also, when kids put on a growth spurt, their frame size increases, but their muscles take a while to catch up. My son seemed to be in a perpetual state of catching up between about 12 and 18, and was like a caricature of an awkward teen at times. I would be willing to bet that your son's gun is just a little too short now, and he is getting more felt recoil than last year, which has led to the wild swinging. Try adding a 1/4" spacer between the buttstock and recoil pad, or fit a thicker pad, and see how he does.
     
  17. tammike

    tammike Member

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    Video. It does absolutely no good to practices bad habits and every shot fired should be done with the intention of breaking a target.
     
  18. Ajax

    Ajax Well-Known Member

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    We have a young man at our club going through a similar thing. I have helped him and he is a very good shot but he is playing the games now and has been watching some of the old timers shoot. He thinks it looks cool but he has started to shoot bad. I have tried to explain when you're 70 and your reaction time is not as good as it once was people try all kinds of things to make up for good technique. He stops for a while and starts to break targets again. Then he starts to look cool again and shoots like crap.

    Good Luck,
    Ajax
     
  19. blade819

    blade819 Well-Known Member

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    A camcorder is a wonderful thing!

    blade819
     
  20. cecritz

    cecritz Member

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    Could be how he is SEEING the target he maybe looking for the target right at the edge of the house or he may be looking down the barrel instead of getting his eyes up front and above the edge of the house, so he's chasing the streak!.
    Have him discribe what he is seeing, can he see a shadow in the dome or the steps of the target chances are he is seeing the target but not looking AT THE TARGET, so he is trying to match the target speed and thus over exagerating the gun speed and movement.

    (For a drill have him follow a few targets with out shooting all the way to the ground until he gets smooth movement again, then have him dry fire on a couple after he smooths out then add shells and see how it goes.)

    Also everyone is right about gun fit,it needs to be checked frequently Kids change all the time.

    Shooting Sailor, sounds like your friend when on center is looking hard at the target and then gradually looses focus and starts chasing the target as well.
    (If you look at it hard, you will hit it hard !!)
     
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