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Controlling Shotgun Recoil

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by joe kuhn, Apr 16, 2011.

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  1. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    This article by Randy Wakeman is well done. I particularly like the rules he sets up at the beginning of his article:

    "Shotgun weight affects recoil on approximately a "one-to-one" ratio. Add 10% to a specific shotgun's weight, it kicks about 10% less"

    and

    "Muzzle velocity and ejecta (wad, shot, etc.) both affect recoil approximating a "two-to-one" ratio. Bump up the muzzle velocity by 10%, recoil increases by 20%."

    He then goes on to discuss facts and myths of the problem.

    Joe
     
  2. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    Also of note is the A-square stock pictured in the above site. They call it the "Coil Chek Stock". Reminds me of a DeVault stock.

    "Coil Chek Stock - A-Square's unique Coil Check stock is an ergonomic design resulting from the collaboration of an Orthopedist, an Internist, a Weapons system Engineer, and an Anthropologist. This stock transmits the recoil without causing pain or latent damage and reduces perceived recoil by over half. More details are found in 'Any Shot You Want'."

    Their book, 'Any Shot You Want' looks like a great book.

    Joe
     
  3. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    What did the anthropologist do? HMB
     
  4. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    My guess is he checked to see if the look and feel was acceptable to the status quo.
     
  5. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    What I'm not seeing in my Google search is a company that sells gun weights for your stock. There are some specific bbl weight solutions and the mercury system, but nothing marketed as a general solution.

    I've heard of pouring lead into a copper pipe and am in the process of making one for my Barrakuhna. I'll cut it to fit the AR stock and add a garden hose washer to the front end to inhibit mushrooming. That's the main problem I'm seeing with lead weights I've tried. They mushroom and then start rattling around in the stock. If the lead was formed to fit perfectly, it might not mushroom, but then you might never be able to take it out again after shooting.

    I can imagine someone might sell copper pipe filled with lead in various diameters. You buy it by the inch and finish the fit yourself.

    We'll see if the garden hose washer and the copper pipe helps.

    Joe
     
  6. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    I have a Mossberg 500 I use for the occasional card shoot. As a field gun it was light; recoil wrecked follow through and light weight made it hard to hold steady in the off-hand position.

    I added weight by casting lead slugs the size and shape of 12 gauge shells. I loaded 4 of them in the tubular mag ahead of a short heavy spring to absorb the inertial movement during firing. I put a-couple-and-change more in the bolt hole in the butt stock. An 8 oz clamp-on weight for forward weight bias completes the set. The gun weighs more than 15 pounds but it's like shooting a .22.

    MK
     
  7. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    What did you use as a mold? I've tried plaster and it has to be dried in the oven before you pour.
     
  8. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Joe, you can use a 2x4 and a spade drill to make a mould. HMB
     
  9. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    It won't catch on fire?
     
  10. N. J. BOB

    N. J. BOB Active Member

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    What if it dose, the mold is finished by that time.
     
  11. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    I made my mold out of some scrap 3/4" maple hardwood. I used deck screws 2" apart to screw two pieces together side by side. I used a ¾" Forstner bit to drill 2½" deep holes centered on the joint line and centered between the screws so I could remove the screws when the lead cooled and knock out the slugs. A spade bit and a piece of 2X4 would work too but the Forstner bit holes are flat bottomed and clean and you don't have to chop the mold apart to get to the slugs. I made the mold to hold 6 slugs and cast 3 at a time so I had a cool end of the mold to hold onto.

    MK
     
  12. rodbuster

    rodbuster TS Member

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    Hey Joe, so if you had a 10 pound shotgun, and added 10 pounds of weight to it, you would reduce recoil by 100%? Maybe we need to try that at St Charles the next time we shoot there. I will get a 10 pound piece of rebar, and duct tape it to the gun. This will be like a scientific experiment for the masses.
     
  13. Stl Flyn

    Stl Flyn Well-Known Member

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    I use masking tape around the ends of the tube until it fits slightly snug. Keep circling around the tube until it slides into the bolt hole with slight resistance. If you have to much tape just peel off a slight amount until it slides in. I put a cut piece of 3/4" heater core hosing into the bolt hole first to take up space and shock impact on the stock bolt. Then cut a very small piece for the opening against the pad. No rattling or movement felt. IMPORTANT! Make sure if you make a custom weight to put a 2" bolt into the end, then remove it before you install it. Screw that bolt into the end, to pull the weight out if it lodges into the bolt hole. Jon
     
  14. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    He gives only a brief mention to one of the best recoil reduction devices ever, the gas operated semi-automatic.

    And no mention at all for devices like the Soft-Touch. I tried an 870 with a Soft-Touch, and it had less recoil than my 1187, which is pretty darn soft.
     
  15. 221

    221 Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Rifle shooters weight their stocks all the time.

    They use everything from shot to Mallory to carbide.
     
  16. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    Never heard of Mallory. Here's a data sheet on it. Cost not given on web site.
     
  17. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Mallory metal is commonly used to balance crankshafts where more weight has to be added. The counterweight is bored to a certain depth, then a slug of Mallory metal is welded in.

    Lead used to be poured in, then a steel cap was welded over it, because otherwise the lead would be thrown out. Mallory metal doesn't have that issue, since it's directly weldable.

    I have a 427 Ford crank squirreled that has Mallory metal in the counterweights.
     
  18. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    Cool. Do you know how much it costs and where I might get some? It must be much harder than lead and surely resists deformation from recoil.

    I'm going to use a copper pipe as a mold. The melting point of lead is 328 and the melting point of copper is 1,083 so I should be ok. Copper also makes a dandy mushroom inhibiter which I'm testing along with a garden hose washer. I have a copper end cap for my 1 inch copper pipe that I will use when I pour. The back end of my AR stock on my Barrakuhna will take a 1 inch pipe perfectly. It's 3 inches long and ready to be poured.

    Copper is $3 a foot and the end cap, which should be re-usable, was $3.30. I happen to have the lead laying around from other projects. I originally bought it at Ace as plumber's lead. The melting pot is borrowed from a club member and I have leather gloves and a full face shield for the job.

    Hoping this will up my weight from 10.5 pounds to 11. I've shot an 11 pound gun now for years. The way I balance a gun at the front end of the trigger guard, it doesn't feel that heavy and it really soaks up the recoil. I'm going to sub 1200 fps loads for steel shot at 1-1/8 oz because my 1 oz wad source dried up. My logic for that is I love smoke and that load will give it to you, OMG. Some say we shouldn't be shooting for smoke, but I love it and I'm old enough to not care what other people think. We'll see how the year pans out. I'm cointinuing with my 1 oz lead loads.

    My autoloader is a Rem 58 and I could never find a shell catcher that would work. Tron will drop a dot of weld just inside the bbl to push the empties down to the ground, but I just haven't done it. Future project, maybe.

    Jon, I like your thinking: "I use masking tape around the ends (of the lead weight)"..."I put a cut piece of 3/4" heater core hosing into the bolt hole first to take up space and shock impact on the stock bolt."..."put a 2" bolt into the end, then remove it before you install it" (so you can get the darn thing out).

    Joe
     
  19. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    The melting point of pure lead is 622 deg F

    The melting point of pure copper is 1981 deg F

    Your figures were in deg celcius; OK if you're Canadian

    The specific alloy of each will alter the melting point.

    MK
     
  20. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    I like the way you think. I'm still ok in using copper as a mold. I wanted a big difference regardless of scale. I suppose the lead is pretty pure, it's been melted and had the scruff skimmed off it. The copper, I don't know. Noticed two prices at Home Depot for 1 inch, so they must be different combos.

    I checked out the harness of both and found lead is rated at 1.5 and copper at 2.5 to 3.

    It's amazing all the things you bump into while trapshooting.
     
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