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Conclusions True or False - Experts Only Please

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Ed Y, Oct 15, 2010.

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  1. Ed Y

    Ed Y TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Facts?

    1 7 1/2s travel farther than 8s

    2 8s fall a shorter distance than 7 1/2s

    3 8s drop quicker than 7 1/2s

    Conclusion;

    If I use 8s for 16 yard targets and my pattern is 60%/40% at the 33 yards that I hope to break the target, can I assume that by using 7 1/2s at 27 yards, my pattern will maintain a higher trajectory, 60%/40% at the 44 yards that I hope to break that target, since the 7 1/2s don't fall as quickly and thus I don't have to change my comb height between events?

    Ed Yanchok
     
  2. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    It all depends on the position the Moon relative to where you are shooting on the planet Earth. The affect of the gravitational pull of the Moon on the shot string will be the deciding factor. HMB
     
  3. Rvator97

    Rvator97 TS Member

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    Depends on the wind and temperature...... you may have to adjust your comb between stations! :)
     
  4. fssberson

    fssberson Active Member

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    And an Expert is??
     
  5. balance365

    balance365 TS Member

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    7 1/2s weigh more than 8s so gravitional effect is greater on 7 1/2 causing 7 1/2s to fall faster, rendering all your facts as incorrect. Of course I am going on simplified equations of a single pellet and assuming you haven't changed load speed and haven't changed initial tragectory angle.
     
  6. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    Even if your facts are correct (which they appear to be) this part of your conclusion isn't:<blockquote><I>"...my pattern is 60%/40% at the 33 yards... can I assume that by using 7 1/2s at 27 yards, my pattern will maintain a higher trajectory, 60%/40% at the 44 yards..."</I></blockquote>Your facts are generalities; they contain no specifics relative to "how far" or "how much". It's impossible to use statements that contain no specific data to draw specific conclusions about distance and trajectory. To do that you need to know exactly how much further 7½ shot travels and exactly how much quicker the 8 shot drops and how much quicker it falls.

    Without that data you have nothing but speculation on which to base any conclusions about the difference in trajectory and distance between the 2 shot sizes (and it gets more complicated if the temperature and air density change from one day to the next).

    MK
     
  7. jimsw

    jimsw Member

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    Sorry, the weight of an object has no effect on the velocity at which an object falls. A 5 pound ball and a 1 pound ball dropped from the same height will fall at the same rate and arrive at the same time. Galileo proved that centuries ago. He didn't even have the advantage of dropping objects in a vacuum to get rid of the resistance of air.
     
  8. dhip

    dhip Active Member

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    Wouldn't the weight,and mass of the 71/2s contribute to the above mentioned fact that with the same powder charge they'd drop first?Also,if it is a calm day compared to a blistery day as expected in our area tommorrow,it could effect the 71/2s even further.Of course I'm sure it's all in the miniscule dimension anyway,so I say ,load what ya want, shoot em,and have fun.

    Doug H.
     
  9. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    In one of the old Lyman books.. there was a chart.. Larger pellets travel farther than smaller ones.. If both are shot at the speed... While I argue any point.. and stand on either side.. IMHO.. the 7.5's will have more downrange energy per pellet than a smaller one.. The smaller ones will have a fuller pattern.. Do the math on the pattern board and see which one is best for you..
     
  10. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    Ignore all that crap. Shoot 16's with the same set up as 27 yard, but change your load (if needed) for the yardage. It is more important to focus on the bird exiting the house, keep your head down after the shot, and deal with recoil. Be consistant.
     
  11. zeroed4x

    zeroed4x TS Member

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    I'm hoping that my extreme expertise in mathematics might prove to be useful.
    I've taken a few minutes to give and educated answer for you below.











    [​IMG]
     
  12. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    If I remember my 8th grade physics, mass x velocity sq.............

    The heaver the projectile, the less gravity has an effect on it. Something called energy.


    Wayne
     
  13. matttrapn

    matttrapn Active Member

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    sshhhhhh,sshhhh,ssshhhhhhhhhh,shh,

    Thats the sound of me scratchin' my head.

    Matt Nicol
     
  14. OGC Director

    OGC Director TS Member

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    You guys make my head hurt. See the target, break the target.

    Rich in Indiana
     
  15. zeroed4x

    zeroed4x TS Member

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    I've simplified my equation so that everyone can now break targets with either 7.5's or 8s.



    Load + Shoot x Repeat/25 = n




    And there we have it, enjoy.
     
  16. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    Rick B, Sorry about that. I wasn't referring to your thread. It was the only one that made any sense! You basically said what I said anyway!

    Matt.....home already?
     
  17. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    zeroed4x---Now that is some SERIOUS ciphering. You are most certainly edumacted.----Matt
     
  18. skeezix

    skeezix Member

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    Because of the higher mass of the 7-1/2's they will retain their velocity a bit better (as the Lyman data cited above shows). The time required for the 7-1/2's to travel 20, or 40, or 60 yards will be sligtly less than the time required for the 8's to travel the same distance.

    The difference in the time of flight is also going to be the difference in drop. IOW, For a given amount of time, the 7-1/2's will drop exactly the same amount as the 8's- but since they travel the distance faster their drop at a given yardage will be less.

    The amount of drop = 1/2 x acceleration constant x time^2. (as Newton pointed out a few hundred years ago - there is no mass in the equation) at 30 yards if the time of flight for the 8's is 0.1 seconds, the shot will have dropped .5 x 32.2 x .1 x .1 or about .161 feet (about 2"). The 7-1/2's seem to be about 15 fps faster so time of flight would be 0.0985 seconds and the dop would be 0.1562 feet. The difference between the two is 0.0048 feet or just a touch under 1/16".

    its easy to do the calculation on the effect on your patterns from there.

    john
     
  19. zeroed4x

    zeroed4x TS Member

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    Yes Matt, as a child I was always spanked with a slide rule if I calculated anything incorrectly.
     
  20. psfive

    psfive Member

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    7-1/2's and 8's always will fly further from a tall guys gun-- because they start higher than from a short guys gun
     
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