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Cold weather shells

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by School Teacher, Jan 2, 2008.

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  1. School Teacher

    School Teacher Well-Known Member

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    We are shooting games and bird races at night around Louisville, KY. The temperatures are starting to drop into the low 30's and 20's. This may not be cold by Michigan, Minnesota or Alaskan standards but it is cold to me.


    The STS light handicap 1 1/8 oz 7 1/2 shells seem to be OK but the cheap Federal Wal-Mart multi-purpose 3 dram 7 1/2's really work well and seem faster than the STS light handicap shell.


    Are all factory new shells the same as it gets colder?


    Is one brand, say those loaded with a hotter primer, better?


    Also, I need to work up a 1 1/8 oz winter load of 6’s at 1250 – 1275 fps. I would like a little more speed without too much recoil. This load will be from 35 yards and further and as a backup load in killers.


    I have 1 1/4 oz loads at 1220 fps that I use during the summer loaded with Herco and a Remington primer but these seem to have slowed down a little in colder weather. No off sounding loads but the shot seems to take a tad longer to get to the target.


    I have STS and Federal GM (ribbed) hulls, about 3 pounds of PB powder and will get some Green Dot powder. I also have 8 pounds of Herco. For primers, I have Federal and Remington.


    Is the hotter Federal 209A the best primer for winter?
     
  2. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    Subject: Cold weather shells
    From: school_teacher
    Date: Wed, Jan 02, 2008 - 10:40 AM CT

    Also, I need to work up a 1 1/8 oz winter load of 6’s at 1250 – 1275 fps. I would like a little more speed without too much recoil. This load will be from 35 yards and further and as a backup load in killers.

    I have 1 1/4 oz loads at 1220 fps that I use during the summer loaded with Herco and a Remington primer but these seem to have slowed down a little in colder weather. No off sounding loads but the shot seems to take a tad longer to get to the target.

    * * * * * * * * * *


    Your shooting 1-1/4oz summer loads and you want to create a #6 winter loads as well?

    Dang now this could actually be a good carp fishing type of thread since #6's is to large of shot to use along with 1-1/4oz loads are to heavy to use as well.

    You aint really serious are you?
     
  3. School Teacher

    School Teacher Well-Known Member

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    Lumper:


    As I mentioned in the first sentence, these loads are for games, not registered shoots. I shoot mostly 1 oz of 8's for registered. In most of our games, we shoot from about 35 yards and perhaps a little further back.


    I do like to catch carp but not on TS.com. I fish a lot for Bluegill in the spring with small jigs on ultra-lite tackle. I fish from an 18 foot bass boat.


    Last year, I caught several carp over 5 # in April-May on a 1/16 oz jig with a # 8 hook. I pick them up on shallow muddy banks and, once hooked, the dummy's run for open water. On shallow banks, you can see their mud trails as they feed on the bottom. Just flip your jig into the front of the muddy stream, work it real slow and bang, fish on!


    Despite their coarse appearance, Carp have a soft mouth and a little needle sharp hook gets them every time. If you pull too hard, the hook will straighten out so you have to play them carefully. In deep water, they can really make long runs. I had one over 10 # that took forever to net. I don't keep them as I am not into carp but they are considered a game fish in Europe.


    Have a nice day.
     
  4. IM390

    IM390 Member

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    Hmmmmm, well yes, 6's and 1 1/4 oz loads are both in violation of ATA rules. Check with your club, some areas don't care what you shoot. Fed 209A and CCI 209M are the two hottest primers for winter shooting. Alliant says Green Dot 24 grains, Fed 209A, 1 1/8 oz load with windjammer wad will give you 1310fps with 8400psi. With any other wad the pressure jumps over 10,400 psi. You had better double check this load on a scale, because you will be shooting max by both Federal and Alliants' standards. Last week I saw a SKB come off the line in 8 (eight) pieces because the shooter couldn't remember how he loaded a Federal Champion hull. No one was injured and he broke the target amoung other things.
     
  5. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    school_teacher, since you like the live pigeon concept for summer back up load I will suggest switching powder and keeping same design. I like unique for the 1220 fps and have used the unique powder in GM, STS and AA cases with good results in winter. I personally like the GM and Fed 209A the best and use it as a hunting load in some really cold conditions with good results.

    On the 1250 fps design, I personally use unique in AA case with win. primer.Since you have green dot you may also want to experiment with it as I have never had ignition problems in cold weather with it either.

    I have never been a fan of Herco.
     
  6. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    Games or not ... loads of 1-1/4 of anything or loads of #6's are not allowed at any club that I ever shot at either for any type of shooting at all. I would guess that if you asked your local club if it was allowed they would also seriously frown upon your loads as well as possibly telling you that they are not allowed.
     
  7. School Teacher

    School Teacher Well-Known Member

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    Lumper:

    This is Kentucky and these are games with money jackpots. It is ruthless competition and you can shoot what you like. A favorite trick in a shoot off is to back way up and “out shell” your opponent.


    We can shoot any size shot (no buckshot or slugs) or weight of shot at any velocity. I am aware of clubs that have such restrictions but ours is not one of them.


    I would not object to a limitation on ATA legal shells for shot fall purposes. Since we have adequate shot fall room, most others would not agree to this. It would be very difficult to enforce.



    Pheasantmaster

    I have had good success with Herco in the summer. I am leaning to using Green Dot in a Gold Medal Plastic (ribbed) hull and a Federal Primer. I also have a small supply of once fired Federal Paper hulls and 12C1 wads that I might try.

    Thanks for the responses.
     
  8. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    Well since its Kentucky I guess ya'll would be fergitten about dem scatterguns and usin dem dar squirly rafles lik Danny Boone and Sgt York used but I guess your not real Kentuckians than are you.
     
  9. School Teacher

    School Teacher Well-Known Member

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    Lumper:

    Your command of the English language is something to behold.

    I was born and raised here and plan to die here. Kentucky is my home.

    Old Daniel Boon is buried just a short piece down the road. If I am not mistaken, his rifle “tic liker” was recently found and will be returned to Kentucky. I am told that he was a good shot.

    Sergeant York, of WW I fame, was from the great shooting state of Tennessee.

    When I was in the Army, I observed a 1000 yard match shot with M-14’s, standard issue 7.62 ammo and peep sights. The participants were from the 100th Division which is a Kentucky based division. However, some Tennessee residents cross the border and serve in the 100th. Based on what I saw that day, those boys from the Kentucky/Tennessee border can really shoot.

    I don’t think that it is an accident that Gamaliel Shooting Supply is located on the Kentucky/Tennessee border. Those local boys probably bought a lot of supplies from them when they were starting up.
     
  10. Bisi

    Bisi TS Member

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    I've been using the "Remington Nitro Gold" Sporting clay shell
    (ounce and eight, 7.5) at 1300fps for annies and it works great. We shoot from the porch at our club which would be the 49 yard line, and I can break em there with that shell.

    When it gets real cold and we are shooting from 35 yards in, I load up my regular ATA load with 6s and shoot them.

    School teacher, I tried Herco and didn't have much luck with it in the 1-1/4 load until a Hoosier told me, who was told by a Kentuckian to back off the book receipe a couple of grains. I did that and started to break a few more targets. I found out on my own that Herco can make some really great 1-1/8 loads following the book receipe.

    The few shoots I've been to south of the Ohio, shooting 1-1/4 sixes would be light loads. The boys down there start out using 1-3/8 loads - copper plated, buffered shot, then work their way to the big stuff. Those old Model 12s, and Browning over and unders look and sound like a 16 inch gun from a battleship going off.
     
  11. Hipshot 3

    Hipshot 3 TS Member

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    Teacher......Listen to the Lumper! And, in addition to what he has said, it is necessary to devise inventive ways of keeping shells warm on line. You shoot the same shells in winter as in summer, therefors some imagination is required. In cold weather, my girlfriend accompanys me to the line. Need I go into detail or is the message ringing through?
     
  12. School Teacher

    School Teacher Well-Known Member

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    Hipshot:


    You and Lumper seem to be “birds of a feather” and I find it hard to take either of you seriously.


    I often wonder what some “class clowns” grow up to be. I think that you and Lumper have answered that question for me.
     
  13. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    I second Unique for your loads, for an easier shooting load. I used Herco when I was young, and was not impressed.

    1 1/8 oz at near 1300 fps sounds like Unique all the way. I would use the GM case and Fed 209A primers, and 23 gr (1250) or 25 gr (1310) with the WAA12 or clone wad. The 23 gr load is one I have hunted with, and it is a very easy shooting load.

    The paper hull takes the same components, but 22 gr (1255) or 26.5 gr (1310)

    To load your STS hulls, use the R-P primer, and 25 gr for 1310. As always, even though these loads were triple checked, look at the Alliant manual.

    Green Dot will work in the Fed hull, but no load faster than 1250 is shown for the Remmie hull.
     
  14. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    7625 is the stuff. A Federal case, Remington SP-12 wad, and 32 grains gets you 1330 FPS. Also 4756, and HS-6 (use 540 data).

    Or you could just go buy some "express" hunting loads as they are the same thing (but costy).

    HM
     
  15. Earl4140

    Earl4140 TS Member

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    If no holds are barred I would go with a 10 gauge shooting copper plated BBs. Fla Lagarto is on the right track. The fact that patterns loosen with falling temperature (N.Winston "Cold equals harder to break targets??" 12/16/07) preheating your shells in order. Earl Hamman
     
  16. stokinpls

    stokinpls Well-Known Member

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    Looks like we ought to have a lot of interest in this topic today. 'cept for Al Gore, that is.
     
  17. School Teacher

    School Teacher Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for all the good information.

    My shells for tonight are in the house getting warm for tonight. I plan to keep them in a dry beverage cooler in the clubhouse between shoots. Now, I just need to find some good gloves.

    I want to stay with Alliant powder so Unique and Green Dot may be the way to go for faster 1 1/8 loads. I feel confident in Federal GM hulls and Federal primers.

    I have seen a few shooters try 10 gauge guns at turkey shoots in the past. They were not very successful. When Ithaca came out with a 10 gauge auto many years ago, a few shooters tried it without success. I think that Remington makes an improved version of the 10 gauge automatic but no games shooters seem to be using it. It they were successful, the 10 gauge would be banned from some clubs.

    The 12 gauge 2 3/4" shell is almost universal in games. You can load up to 2 oz. of large shot with a light powder load, especially in the old Active hull. I have seen some shooters be very successful with this approach. These loads are not listed and are arrived at by trial and error. These loads do not go "BANG", they go "poot". After an eternity of time in flight, the target breaks.

    Games are fun to shoot because of the competitive factor and the money. They are definitely not boring. We split most pots two or three ways so most shooters get a “taste”.

    Thanks again for the information.
     
  18. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    I would stay away from the single based powders in colder weather. Green Dot or Unique will work well with the proper loading densities and decent primers.
     
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