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Club Liability - Releases - Waivers

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by porky, Sep 23, 2007.

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  1. porky

    porky TS Member

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    Earl, I don't know where you are at, but in NY, you can sign anything that you want, but who ever signs the release,never ever loses their rights. There isn't any release form in NY that a resident csn sign that will ever sign away their rights.
     
  2. Beancounter

    Beancounter TS Member

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    git-ER-Done, depending on who you are insured with, there are companies out there that REQUIRE participants and guests to sign waiver forms. You might get a policy for a few dollars less if people sign the forms. I never thought it was worth aggrevating folks over, but some clubs feel this is what they want to do. Perhaps there are states where you can sign your rights away, but I think waivers are worthless in a court of law. If the club is negligent, they are responsible no matter who signed what.
     
  3. grunt

    grunt TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Ive heard their not worth the paper their signed on.
     
  4. smartass

    smartass TS Member

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    I've heard that people who practice law without a license or brains should learn the value of silence.
     
  5. Terry Patterson

    Terry Patterson TS Member

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    The waiver does little except provide some window dressing. Even if it is legal in some states, it will be worthless for other affected parties. As an example, Joe signs a waiver and is killed in an accident at the club. Any waiver he signed would not bar his wife and children (not to mention parents, grandchildren and the family pets) from suing.
     
  6. bill1949

    bill1949 Well-Known Member

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    An Attorney, who is a member of our club says the waivers are useless, a person can still sue and possibly win even if they sign a waiver. Doesn't seem right to me but I guess thats the way the laws work...Bill
     
  7. darr

    darr Well-Known Member

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    We require forms from non-members only.Our insurance covers all members.But if the non-member is shooting in a competition our insurance covers them as well.Needless to say if a non-member gets hurt he will be one competition shooting SOB.I have been told by a judge that is also a member that our waivers aren't worth the paper they are written on.

    Darr
     
  8. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    dudley is right. The wife never agreed to lose her companion, and I don't care how many waivers he signed. Kids never agreed to lose their father either.

    I still see them used but when push comes to shove I don't think they will hold.

    HM
     
  9. slowdp

    slowdp TS Member

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    It seems that a release form signed without money passing hands is worthless. At least that is what I was told by an auto u-pullit yard. They charge $1 to enter the yard to look for a part. You sigh the release when you pay the $1. It is worth looking into.
     
  10. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    I never learned much in Business Law 101 but slowdp may be right. Any contract requires consideration in order to make it valid. A token exchange of money is needed to validate a contract!!
     
  11. School Teacher

    School Teacher Well-Known Member

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    I am not a lawyer but this is my understanding of the matter based on conversations with a lawyer many years ago.

    Unless your club or organization has Directors and Officers liability coverage, in the event of a suit, no matter how frivolous, you may have to pay for your own defense out of your own pocket. It is my understanding that a release form is good only to the extent that the other party does not sue you.

    The above comment does not mean that you will loose your case or that you cannot counter sue the party who is suing you. It is only meant to say that you may have to defend yourself out of your own pocket.

    Since our club does not have Directors and Officers liability coverage, I will not serve as an officer or director. As a simple member, I am covered by our clubs articles of incorporation. The most or worst that can happen to me is that the club looses all its assets in the event that another party is successful in suing the club.
     
  12. Opion8ted

    Opion8ted TS Member

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    Those forms, disclaimers etc. are not legally binding and even if they were you would not be protected from family members of a person injured. Consult a lawyer and save yourself a lot of trouble.
     
  13. Southern Gent

    Southern Gent TS Member

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    "I've heard that people who practice law without a license or brains should learn the value of silence."

    What he said.

    The specific language and matters that can be released vary from state to state, so its best to check with a local attorney. You want to seek out one who specializes in insurance defense law, because they live and die by releases. Call you local insurance agent, and they will tell you who the local attorneys are.

    In addition to the release language, you want language that will "hold harmless and indemnify" the club (agents, officers, and etc.).

    The problem with most clubs is that if they get releases signed, they are somewhat haphazard about filing and keeping them. It is quite probable that you won't know you need the release until a year or so after the fact.

    Also, as your attorney may not know much about shooting, your release should include the basic safety rules (no shooting after drinking, ear and eye protection, any ammo limitations)so that there is no question about the shooter "knowing" about those rules or practices.
     
  14. Les Greevy

    Les Greevy TS Member

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    Earl,
    I am an insurance defence lawyer (38 years)and I teach the risk management section of the NRA / USAS/ CMP coach course. Participation agreements work better than waivers. Please send me a private e-mail if you would like more information. Les
     
  15. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Les- A little more technical question. Is the offer of a waver by a club an acknowledge by that the club that club activities are dangerous? If the club does not believe dangerous things happen at the site, why would they need a waver?

    Pat Ireland
     
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