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Clean soon after using e3

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by chipking, Sep 28, 2008.

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  1. chipking

    chipking TS Member

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    I use a lot of e3 for my trap loads and will continue to do so HOWEVER this is the 3rd time on 3 different guns that I have had a fine red rust form in the chamber and on the gas system within 2 days of use on hot humid days. I normally clean and oil my guns right after use or as soon as I get home from a shoot or practice. On these occasions I waited a couple of days, something that I have done in the past with red dot, promo, 700x, universal clays, clays and american select with no problems. But with e3 there was rust waiting for me.

    Just a heads up.

    --- Chip King ---
     
  2. ricks1

    ricks1 TS Member

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    what primer are you useing? I have seen that with Fiocchi primers rick
     
  3. 410 JIM

    410 JIM TS Member

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    No such problems after shooting 5 or 6 cases of E3 starting when it came on the scene.(48 lbs for you newbies)These guns were seldom cleaned immediately, usually 3 or 4 days after the first 200 to 250 rounds. All Remington primers.
     
  4. 410 JIM

    410 JIM TS Member

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    Make that at least 4 cases or 64 pounds.(Two 8lb jugs per case)Sorry.
    Jim B.
     
  5. RogerNRA

    RogerNRA TS Member

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    I think hot, humid weather is your answer............Roger
     
  6. chipking

    chipking TS Member

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    I'm about to open my 9th 8 pounder of e3. The first event was with Fiocchi primers the second was Win 209s and the last was with RIOs so I don't suspect the primers. All have happened in August, September here in Virginia. It only happens with high humidity and within 3 days and has never happened with any of the other powders I have used before. The real answer is I need to clean and oil as soon as I get done.

    --- Chip King ---
     
  7. pyrdek

    pyrdek Well-Known Member

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    Many years ago, when IMR bought Dupont's line of powders, I had a similar experience with one of the first lots of IMR 700-X. I had used the exact same load previously for a number of years with no problem but suddenly I saw a white deposit left on the gas cylinder and barrel of my Winchester 1400. If I didn't get it off immediately, in a day or three I would end up with the fine red rust you describe.

    I talked with the lab up in New York and they requested that I send them some of the loaded shells. I did that and I even included a barrel from the 1400 that I intentionaly fired, did not clean and sent it to them. I also told them that I would not be using any more of the suspect powder.

    My barrel and their report came back that they could find no problem but they also sent me a couple cans of 700-x as a courtesy. The replacement powder, using the exact same components (primer, powder charge, wad, shell, shot charge) did not exhibit any of the white deposit or rusting.

    My thoughts are that the manufacturing change may have introduced some un-neutralized acid either from the manufacturing process or as combustion by-products.
     
  8. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Chip- I can't understand how something in the powder residue could directly cause rust. Rust can only form when something that is in contact with the metal will remove electrons from the steel.

    It is possible that a powder residue left in the barrel could attract water and water will accept electrons from steel, but all powders are made of the same basic materials. They differ only in the proportions of the materials and the type of wood pulp that is used to make the powder (wood pulp has replaced cotton).

    When you shoot, the barrel gets hot. As the barrel cools, water can condense on the barrel. This was most likely the cause of your rust. If you has been using any other powder at the time that caused the same temperature fluctuations, I suspect the same thing would have happened. During the time you had the problem, high temperatures in Va were around and above 95, and the humidity was very high. That was a great time to shoot, but the conditions were also prime for getting a little rust in our barrels.

    TinMan88- To my limited knowledge, no powder contains calcium compounds to retard burning. This is typically accomplished by flake size and graphite.

    Pat Ireland
     
  9. atashooter

    atashooter Member

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    ChipKing; I live in Chesterfield, and no matter what Brand I shoot, after about 5-6 shells, I can instert a finger into the chamber of my M-12 and pull it back with some moisture on it. I think it's our humidity here. Every now and again, I also notice it in my M1A rifle when I shoot it.
     
  10. les morgan

    les morgan TS Member

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    TinMan, I had Titegroup eat away the plastic in my PW powder measure( the old clear cylinder type). Also had some trouble with Longshot softening and sticking to the inside of the black plastic base on the new type easy fill hopper.
     
  11. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    TinMan- I will do some study and try to find out if a Ca compound is used to retard burning in at least shotgun powders. I could learn something. Many calcium compounds will absorb water and this could lead to a rust problem.

    Powders do contain contain solvents that can dissolve some plastics. I have never encountered a problem with the solvents but I can easily see how others might.

    Pat Ireland
     
  12. claybuster38

    claybuster38 Member

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    Any powder that I seem to use; and shoot when it is around 100 de. I can feel the slik wetness when they come out of the cylinder I am sure moisture and ascidic conditions created by fireing is the culprit. Wipe em down and scrub em out a little when you put them away. Long term storage clean them more than the week to week. Marv White
     
  13. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    TM- I am not familiar with the different priming compounds that might be used. Perhaps someone else could help me out with this information.

    The prime sources of residue in shotgun powder are cellulose (wood pulp)from the nitro-cellulose and graphite. Slower burning powders have a tendency to leave more residue than fast burning powders. I doubt that any NG residue is left in a double base powder. That stuff is rather unstable.

    Pat Ireland
     
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