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Clays vs Clays Dot powder

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Remstar311, Oct 22, 2009.

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  1. Remstar311

    Remstar311 Member

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    There is a huge thread on this. They are similar, but not the same. Alliant doesn't post very much data for the clay dot.
     
  2. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    Remstar311

    You are right that the powders are not identical. They are "similar". I would not use Clays data for Clay Dot and vice versa. Alliant did put up a bit more data, both in the downloadable and print guides. The data is also reflected in the online database. Unfortunately, the data is somewhat limited. They are BOTH great powders, but I would limit them to 7/8 oz, 1 oz, and very light 1 1/8 oz. Keep the pressures within reason (under 9500 PSI) and you should be OK. I would also strongly suggest that the data be used as written if you are approaching the 9000 PSI mark. Of course, Clay Dot is considerably less expensive. I'd save a bit more and buy Promo.
     
  3. Remstar311

    Remstar311 Member

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    I load 1 1/8 for years with this powder. Winchester primer, hull and wad 8740 psi. Its not really designed for 1200+fps like quack is saying. All and all a great powder and an even better price. 50 bucks cheaper for 8lbs than clays for me. That keeps my loads under 375 a box and I'm happy with that.
     
  4. Border Bandit

    Border Bandit Well-Known Member

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    I've found that Clay Dot throws a slightly heavier charge w/vol, but it seems a moot point anyway. Clay Dot is $20+ an 8lb jug cheaper, and Hodgen seems to have abandoned Clays, since it appears to be in very short supply, never mind they lost the lawsuit.
     
  5. OldGoat

    OldGoat Well-Known Member

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    What lawsuit? Did not hear about this...info appreciated. Best Regards, Ed
     
  6. fssberson

    fssberson Active Member

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    I switched back to Red Dot when Clays became unavailable. I happen to like it better than Clays and will continue to use it for 16 yards, 18.0 grains/ Cheddite primer/ in AA or Remington hull/ 1 oz. Spolar wad/ #8's = 1,200+. Very comfortable. Hits hard and is quick = no head lifitng. Fred
     
  7. missemucho

    missemucho Member

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    I've used both and I don't know if they are identical, but I know I loaded them exactly the same and never could tell any difference (except the price, of course).
    John
     
  8. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    EE- Are you sure? The same people, or at least the same laboratory that developed Clays also developed Clay Dot.

    Pat Ireland
     
  9. Border Bandit

    Border Bandit Well-Known Member

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    Ed, here's a link to the PDF concerning the case. Apparently Hogdon was concerned about Alliant "stealing" the name "CLAY" and brought in an expert witness to substantiate the argument that using the name "Clay Dot" was confusing us trap shooters. (as a whole, an easily confusable group) Once I learned that Clay Dot was $20+ a jug cheaper than Clays, all confusion ended. Apparently the Court thought so, as well (grin)

    http://www.websupp.org/data/DKS/2:06-cv-02100-71-DKS.pdf
     
  10. Remstar311

    Remstar311 Member

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    So they have nearly identical burn rates, names and marketing strategies but are not even remotely similar?
     
  11. scooterbum

    scooterbum Active Member

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    EE,

    I think you do err.

    Thank you,
    Longshooter
     
  12. OldGoat

    OldGoat Well-Known Member

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    Mike Poore, Thanks for the info and the PDF! Best Regards, Ed
     
  13. fssberson

    fssberson Active Member

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    Who cares??? "Pull" -- Bang! Fred
     
  14. scooterbum

    scooterbum Active Member

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    EE,

    You really need to learn a little more, on how to do research.

    For example, if you would look on a container of ClayDot, you would immediately notice that it contains both nitrocellulose AND nitroglycerine, the two needed requirements to be identified as a double base powder.

    Okay?

    Thank you,
    Longshooter
     
  15. Pull Bang

    Pull Bang Member

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    FYI

    I have an 8 pounder of Clay Dot here on my desk, I just purchased it.


    INGREDIENTS AS LISTED ON THE CONTAINER:


    Nitrocellulose


    Nitroglycerin


    Diphenylamine


    Ethyl Centralite


    Rosin


    Polyester



    So, I would interpret this as a double base powder.


    Frank
     
  16. Remstar311

    Remstar311 Member

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    http://www.alliantpowder.com/resources/msds/msds_clay_dot.html

    section 2
     
  17. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    It would appear that the contents label on Clays differs from the MSDS. That situation shows up now and then in imported products. With other imports, it has been shown that both the container labels and the MSDS differ from the contents in the product.

    Pat Ireland
     
  18. scooterbum

    scooterbum Active Member

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    Anyone that spends much time perusing MSDS informational sheets will find that they can be woefully inadequate on the information train. They can leave much to be desired, not only for information, but also for accuracy.

    Thank you,
    Longshooter
     
  19. Charles.F.Phillips

    Charles.F.Phillips TS Member

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    I am glad to know that Alliant makes their powders in Radford, Virginia!

    Someone else pointed out in another thread that Clays is imported. I knew that when I started using it ten years ago, but never gave it any thought when times were good. When it was pointed out a few days ago that Alliant is American made powder, I decided to switch and thankfully, my eight pound jug of Clays is almost gone. Now that I know that Alliant makes their powders right here in Virginia, there's no way I'll buy anything else! :)

    I'm also going to switch back to GOEX black powder, but that will be awhile because I've still got about twenty-four pounds of Sheutzen powder left...

    R/s,<br />
    Charlie

    "The Dude Abides..."
     
  20. Charles.F.Phillips

    Charles.F.Phillips TS Member

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    EE,

    Thanks! I don't mind the rifle powders - my only smokeless rifle is my Garand and I have enough ammo for it to last the rest of my natural life. :)


    R/s,<br />
    Charlie

    "The Dude Abides..."
     
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