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**Clays International and gas operated guns.

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Jerry (KS), May 30, 2007.

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  1. Jerry (KS)

    Jerry (KS) TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    6
    I was having trouble with the load I was using from the Hodgdon reloading manual in my Remington 1100 20 ga so I e-mailed Hodgdon this....

    From: xxxxxxxx
    Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 9:38 PM
    To: Help Account
    Subject: Weak 20 Ga. International load???

    Using this load from the 2006 Hodgdon loading manual: Lead Shot 20 ;7/8 oz. Internat'l Win. 209 WAA20 in my Remington LT20 1100 with 21" barrel the gun will not cycle and eject the shell. The gun works fine with Federal factory loads of 7/8oz;
    2 1/2 Dram EQ loads. It also works fine using 17.8 grs Longshot; 7/8oz; Win 209; WAA20 wad in a AA hull. Again it cycles fine using 15.5 grs Universal; 7/8 oz; Win 209; WAA20 wad in a AA hull.
    I would like to use the 4 pounds of International I have as it burns VERY clean. The UNIVERSAL and LONGSHOT leave a lot of residue in the barrel.
    I've used the CLAYS International in my Browning O/U for years and was very happy until I tried it in the 1100. And YES, the 1100 was clean and dry.

    Any Ideas?
    .....
    .....
    This is the reply I received...
    ....
    It is not a surprise that International loads do not function your 1100 20 ga. International does not produce a large volume of gas. Your shotgun needs gas to operate. . The volume of gas produced by International is not sufficient to operate your 100's gas system. Try Universal Clays in the 1100 and it should work perfectly.
    For a complete listing of all rifle, pistol and shotshell reloading recipes for Hodgdon, IMR and Winchester Smokeless Propellants, go to www.hodgdon.com and use the Reloading Data Center

    Customer Satisfaction Manager

    I thought about e-mailing him back and just say......WELL DUH!
    Why would Hodgdon even put that load in the book if they know it won't work?

    What are your experiences using Clays International in a gas operated gun?
     
  2. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,843
    "I thought about e-mailing him back and just say......WELL DUH! Why would Hodgdon even put that load in the book if they know it won't work?"

    Because, -and I'm just guessing here - it works just fine with most guns, just not (some) semi-automatics?


    Neil
     
  3. Texas Ton

    Texas Ton TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    417
    I find that odd, they used to claim that International was the berries for gas guns because it produced a gas "bubble", that was advantageous to operation. If you said, I don't see it, how much IC are you dropping?
     
  4. jtf650

    jtf650 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    105
    This FAQ has been on Hodgdon's site for some time:

    Q. My gas operated semi-auto 20 ga. will not function using International Clays. How can I make my shotgun function?

    A. This is a gas production problem not a gun problem. With the International, there is insufficient gas volume to operate the firearm. By going to a slower burning powder like Universal Clays, more gas will be produced and the action will function flawlessly.


    James Fawcett
     
  5. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,064
    Interesting - I used International in 20 gauge auto for a while. It malfunctioned regularly.

    But I was able to use up my International in a very light 12 gauge load that typically would not cycle an 1100 with most powders, but did with International. Hodgdon tech told me was because International produced a big gas bubble.

    Maybe a smaller bubble compared to Universal, but larger than most 12 gauge powders? Go figure.
     
  6. JLW

    JLW TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    221
    I loaded and shot Downrange 7/8ths/STS/Win209's/20.5 grs. Int'l for the first time last night and they cycled fine in my 12 ga. 1100 Classic.-Jerald
     
  7. omahasportingsupply

    omahasportingsupply TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2007
    Messages:
    1,138
    Here is a copy of an email I just sent Jerald.

    Jerald, so funny you should ask this question after last night league
    snafu!

    International Clays (by Hodgdon) should be able to max out at 1400 FPS with
    23.1 grains(P139 Hodgdons 2007 Book). That is moving! Your 20.5 loads
    should have been at 1250 FPS range. That is not a bad load. I, being a
    dufus, put in a MEC busing (34) dropping 21.9 grains of International and
    made 1325 FPS load. In the little 3901 I was shooting, this hot little load
    raised my POI about 2-3 inches. I didn't figure this out completely until I
    had missed most of the 16s and a lot of the handicaps. When I put the rib
    2-3 inches lower on the bird, I was smoking them even from the longer
    distances with ease. This is what I get for not patterning the load before
    I use it in leagues. I guess I don't understand the other shooters reasons.
    If you want a fast load on a 7/8 oz payload of shot, this worked great.
    From your standard load, you may want to see how the increase in speed
    effects your patterning. It was breaking them in handicap with no problem,
    it was just that I was shooting OVER them consistently. I shot what I
    thought was under the rock by 2+" and it barely hit the top of the rock. It
    smashed it hard! By the time I shot the 3rd event (doubles) , I decided I
    had little to lose and I thought I knew where they were shooting. In
    doubles, I was only 2 below my normal average. The 7/8 oz 8# broke the long
    bird with authority on the second shot. Hope this helps. I will be eating
    humble pie for a while.
     
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