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ClayDot Load questions

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by bluskyshooter, Aug 10, 2011.

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  1. bluskyshooter

    bluskyshooter Active Member

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    How far can I take Claydot powder in a Remington STS/GC hull using 1-1/8 oz of shot ?

    I really like my singles load (17.5 Claydot, STS hull, Fig 8 wad, Noble209, 1-1/8oz of #8) ... which is supposedly good for 1145fps. I'd like to increase the velocity of this load somewhat - to use for handicap (say @22-24 yds). But there is no Alliant published load higher than 1145 fps. I see Hogdon publishes a 1200 fps load for Clays (18.6gr/11,000psi). Has anyone used more than 17.5 Claydot in a Rem hull ... and have supporting test data (pres/vel) to show it is a reasonable & safe load ? And before anyone mentions - I do use Claydot in straight-wall hulls to get faster loads with 1-1/8oz shot ... just would like to do so in a Rem hull.

    Appreciate some insight - thanks, Brian
     
  2. Pull & Mark

    Pull & Mark Well-Known Member

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    Brian, The only way I'd do this myself is to contact Alliant and talk or E-mail one of there tech's. Ask them what load I can use to get a 1200 fps load. The'll tell you if it can be done and with what primers/or wad combo and how much powder to drop. I would never use a load that someone gave me (anywhere) I could not look up myself. Good Luck and Break-em all. Jeff
     
  3. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    Jeff gave good advice. Clays/Dot gets pressury, and right.NOW.

    If Alliant will give you a recipe - and I doubt they will - do not deviate or swap wads or primers.

    You have a good solution already with FGM/Eurotrash ... why are you bothering?

    Bob
     
  4. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    There are better powders than Clays/Claydot for what you are trying to achieve.

    Titegroup is the one I like best.

    Also, for your yardage, you might consider sticking with the slower load. The faster load may or may not do anything for you, but it will have more recoil.

    Just saying...
     
  5. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    I switched to ww super handicap powder when I did that. Claydot isn't the powder for it.
     
  6. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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  7. bluskyshooter

    bluskyshooter Active Member

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    Thanks for teh replies guys. MK - wow! You are right, that data is very interesting. Any reason why you think the data is so far different than the Alliant published data ?
     
  8. scooterbum

    scooterbum Active Member

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    That sure looks to be defective testing, whether it be operator or equipment.
     
  9. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    <blockquote>"That sure looks to be defective testing, whether it be operator or equipment."</blockquote>Oh, brother! and you're talking about a guy whose business and reputation depend on the accuracy of that equipment and his ability to use it?

    Call Kevin Lewis at Downrange Mfg. (after the Grand). Tell him you saw some test results from his ballistics lab on TS.com, tell him he's using bum equipment and that he doesn't know how to operate it. He'll get a tickle out of that since it's the exact same equipment Hodgdon, Alliant and Remington use. And my tests were done a year apart...first 2 in '07 and the second 2 in '08...specifically to check for variations in testing and components.

    Post back with his reply to you. I wanna read it (if it's primtable)!

    MK
     
  10. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    <blockquote>"Any reason why you think the data is so far different than the Alliant published data ?"</blockquote>When you look at my data, keep in mind that you're looking at my data...data for the shells I loaded with my equipment and my lots of powder and primers. Each of my loads was hand weighed: powder, shot and wads. Each load I send for testing is loaded on a single stage press, one shell at a time. There will still be variations from what the factory publishes. Call Kevin and talk to him about OEM shell and powder tests. The tolerance for pressures is ±1000 psi and for velocity 100 fps for factory tests; they're just not as precise as their data would cause you to believe. Remember that years before Alliant published any Claydot data at all their standard line was "use Clays data for Claydot powder". I did and I found out that it didn't work. I had heard rumblings about that before but I proved it to myself unintentionally.

    I had these tests done when I was experimenting with Rio primers so I sent my Claydot/WW 209 loads to be tested to establish a baseline. That's when I found out what my loads were actually producing. That lead to the +½ grn drop in powder charge from Clays to the Claydot to get one that kept safe pressures. Bottom line is that this is the data that I got loading the Clays formula; the reason for the difference is basically unimportant because I'm not out to duplicate Alliant's test results.

    MK
     
  11. Mark425

    Mark425 TS Member

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    I had some testing done with Claydot. Each shell was hand-loaded. The shot and powder weighed on a calibrated scale. The DRXL-1 is supposed to be a direct sub for WAASL and NS's are subs for Win 209's. Decide for yourself if its accurate or not and if subs are truly the same as OEM data.


    Tested Reloads:

    mark425_2008_030368.jpg


    Alliant Data:

    mark425_2008_030369.jpg


    BTW...regardless of the data, I love this load and is all I shoot for practice and singles. Registered Handicap, still shooting good old Green Dot and 1 1/8.
     
  12. v-strom 650

    v-strom 650 Member

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    I just started using Clay Dot and I like it for my 1 oz loads, but the data from Kevin is confusing MK: 17.5gr is over max pressures (13,000 average w/ no velocity recorded) but 18.3gr is not (13,150 ave at 1230fps) am I missing something? That 16.5gr load looks like a sweet one, is that where you ended up? John Terre
     
  13. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    <blockquote>"...but the data from Kevin is confusing MK: 17.5gr is over max pressures (13,000 average w/ no velocity recorded) but 18.3gr is not (13,150 ave at 1230fps) am I missing something?"</blockquote>Yeah, I think you are, but it's not entirely your fault.<ul><li>the max ballistic pressure for a 12 ga. 2¾" load is 11500 psi (says that in red on test 1)<li>the five 17.5 grn shells averaged 13010 psi, the five 18.3 grn shells averaged 13158. I'd say that makes them all over pressure by a considerable amount.</UL>

    Why are there no velocities listed for the test printed in red? Kevin explained that he sometimes gets test loads from live pigeon shooters who are trying to outdo their buddies in the velocity department. The computer is set up to report when the loads are over pressure by printing results in red. But it WON'T print the velocities for over pressure loads so as not to encourage the continued production of loads running unsafe pressures just because they're hypersonic.

    After every test batch Kevin did for me we got together on the phone at night while he sent the results via email and we talked about how things developed. Once he felt he could trust that I was after data and not speed records, he turned off the filters (including the red ink!) and let the computer print complete results for me. The 18.3 batch is still way over pressure! It's just not in red.

    I settled on 16.7 grns of Claydot for these 1 1/8 oz loads because I have an unmodified bushing that drops exactly that amount and I'm comfortable with the pressures and the velocities.

    MK
     
  14. scooterbum

    scooterbum Active Member

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    MK,

    The testing you provided does not correspond with the powder manuf. data. In fact, it's out of the ballpark. Have you contacted Alliant to report there erroneous data? Does the wad manuf. know more than the powder manuf.?

    What's up with load 1 psigs resembling load 2 psigs. Duh.
     
  15. v-strom 650

    v-strom 650 Member

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    Thanks for the explanation MK, the data you got will be valuable for me if I switch over to Clay Dot for my 1 1/8 loads. I'm using Red Dot now and would like to try to switch so I only use 1 powder for both 1 oz (15.9gr Clay Dot, Fed 209A, XL1 wad, Gun Club hull) and 1 1/8th. If I want to stick w/ Fed primers it looks like I'll have to reduce the powder charge even more. J. Terre
     
  16. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    <blockquote>"...the data you got will be valuable for me if I switch over to Clay Dot for my 1 1/8 loads."</blockquote>The point I've been stressing all along is that the data I reported is data for shells I built with my equipment and my supplies. My recommendation to anyone who asks is that they contact Kevin at Downrange (this is their "contact" link), assemble 5 shells for him and send them to Nebraska to be tested to see what your equipment and techniques produce. Given the tolerances that powder and ammo manufacturers hold to in their production runs, it's the only way to really know what you're producing.

    During a phone conversation with Paul Ferrier at Alliant a few years ago he stressed about Claydot (paraphrasing):<blockquote>"Don't try to use Claydot to build a 1 1/8 oz load faster than 1200 fps. You'll hurt yourself."</blockquote>My tests helped be understand why he said that.

    MK
     
  17. v-strom 650

    v-strom 650 Member

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    Thanks for the link MK. J. Terre
     
  18. scooterbum

    scooterbum Active Member

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    Mk,

    Why don't you just say that the loads you assembled were FUBAR, and leave it at that?
     
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