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Clay Targets w/muzzleloader? Read obituary.

Discussion in 'Off Topic Threads' started by new loader, Dec 9, 2008.

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  1. new loader

    new loader Member

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    Copied from news article:
    In his personal life, Carmichael’s hobby was competitive shooting. He gained international acclaim as a muzzle loading champion.
    He helped write a book, “Muzzle Loading, Shooting and Winning with the Champions.”
    He and his family often traveled to the U.S. national range in Friendship, Indiana.
    In 1978, in matches in Madrid, Spain, he shot the first perfect score ever in an international muzzle-loading competition. “But the next year, at Bisley, England, Carmichael surpassed himself,” reporter Hale wrote in a 1982 story headlined Champion Carmichael’s record won’t be broken.
    “He shot 20 straight clay birds in individual competition, blasted an extra five the rules allow perfect shooters, then knocked 20 more out of the sky in team competition. Even a pair of back to back misfires failed to interrupt the amazing run.”

    From obituary:
    His hobby was competitive shooting. He was a life member of the National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association and the National Rifle Association. He was selected to the U.S. International Muzzle Loading Trap Team in 1977 and competed in Spain, England, Holland, France, Germany, Japan, Italy, Switzerland, Australia, and South Africa, holding world records in percussion and flintlock trap-shooting. In 1996 he was inducted into the Muzzle Loading Hall of Fame in Friendship, Indiana and into the Safari Club International Muzzle Loading Hall of Fame in Reno, Nevada. Bill passed on the love of muzzle loading to his entire family. Each summer the entire family would gather at the camp grounds of the skeet range at the National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association in Friendship for a camping vacation, skeet competition, music, and story-telling around the camp fire.

    So what the heck is trapshooting with muzzleloader? 7-1/2 or 8?

    http://chestertontribune.com/Obituaries%202008/porter_county_leader_william_car.htm
     
  2. Jimmy E

    Jimmy E TS Member

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    Oct 23, 2008
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    Never heard of a black powder shotgun?!? You must be new. lol
    Jimmy
     
  3. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    When I was a kid, I loaded a Model 24 Savage 22LR over 20 ga with black powder in 3" Federal Paper hulls. Equal amounts of FFG and 1 oz #5's with cardboard and fiber wads. I harvested a lot of rabbits and squirrels.

    So much fun, but cleaning the gun was a pain.
     
  4. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Green Bay Wisconsin
    I fired one at Ben Avery when the ML guys had their get together a few years ago.

    The caplocks are neat, but the flintlocks have a worse lag time than a Browning recolless.

    HM
     
  5. capvan

    capvan Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2008
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    Interesting and a good read...

    Can anyone tell me a blackpowder load for a AA hull, 12 Ga?

    Shot with a college team a long time ago and a favorite prank was to slip in a load that was blackpowder. The team members always knew that *someone* was going to get it, but didn't know when or who. Always a good laugh when it went off. Put a little stress into their practice sessions.

    I'd like to try it...

    Bruce
     
  6. Savage99Stan

    Savage99Stan Active Member

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    Muzzle loading trap and skeet began way back with Bogardus and Kimble. It survives today at Friendship, IN, and just about anywhere people like to shoot muzzle loaders. I shot with and against Carmichael at Friendship and in Wisconsin. He was a tough competitor who spent freely on equipment and shot the best stuff he could get. If memory serves me, two of his favorite guns were an original fairly large bore double and a "Friendship Special", an over/under inline. Both were choked and I can remember him cutting wads in the evening from horsehair felt. Normal matches for muzzle loaders included 10, 16 and 20 yard events of 10 or 15 or 25 birds. The national championship was 100 birds from 16 yards, a three or four hour event if you were shooting a single shot. Two of my personal friends, Terry Reuling from Glasford,IL at the time, and Mike Hagerty of Atlanta, IL, won the event in different years using single shot Bordereaux "live bird" guns manufactured in Peoria in the late 1800's. Terry shot a 7 gauge, Mike a 10. Winning scores range in the mid to high ninties. Best I ever got with my little homemade 12 was an 89. Skeet is shot just like modern day skeet but usually is sixteen birds in one event (high and low from each station) and a doubles match with a pair from one through seven. Wisconsin Sportsmen Alliance in Union Grove used to put on a great three day black powder shotgun event for both muzzle loaders and original hammer guns. We used to schedule one of our short vacations around it. Lots of muzzle loading shotguns available today from various sources. Fun but messy. When shooting doubles at trap you shot your first bird as fast as possible and waited for the second one to appear from the cloud of smoke. Really nasty on a calm, humid day.
     
  7. Savage99Stan

    Savage99Stan Active Member

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    I forgot to answer the question about loads. In muzzle loaders we normally used an equivalent volume load, that is set the measure for the shot weight you want, i.e. 1 1/8 oz, and use it to measure both powder (1Fg for big stuff like 10's and up, 2Fg for 12-20, 3Fg for little stuff) and shot. Load would be like this: cup down over powder (we made these from milk carton discs about 1 1/4" in dia for 12 ga and spun them through a homemade die to produce cups), one or two .135 cards, one "wet" fiber of 3/8 or 1/2" (wet when shooting trap or skeet, "greased" when hunting) the shot charge, and then a thin card disc (milk carton) over the shot. In my Mellott barrel (Joe Mellott made some great 36" long muzzle loading barrels, I could get some really nice high 80% patterns with this load. Plastic wads and black powder don't get along very well, leaving a lot of junk in the barrel. For modern guns, 75 grains of 3Fg black, a red AA wad, and 1 1/8 oz shot in a AA hull work well but wipe the bore every few shots or you'll be scraping plastic for a while. I've never tried Pyrodex or 777 in shotguns so you're on your own there. Dupont made great black powder and I hoard a few cans left from long ago. GOI took them over and there isn't much different. Good luck.
     
  8. harpo_old

    harpo_old Guest

    I grew up shooting at friendship and knew Bill Carmichael and most of the shooters, in Bills later yrs. he mostly shot skeet and ran a very nice shoot over 2 skeet fields at friendship . Most of the trap and skeet shooters are as good as they come and would not take a back seat to any modern shooter,that is if they were to pick up a modern trap or skeet gun. If you are ever in southern Indiana in June or September stop in at Friendship, In. those ole boys would love to see ya and would even loan you a gun to shoot a round..
     
  9. vdt

    vdt Active Member

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    ontario
    Tradition make a in-line 12 ga. with screw-in chokes..i have one,i bought it to shoot turkey's
     
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