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Clay Dot vs. Clays in cold weather

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by blowin smoke, Jan 17, 2008.

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  1. blowin smoke

    blowin smoke TS Member

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    A shooting buddy recently switched to Clay Dot from Clays. He said something about Clay Dot being double based instead of single based, and more stable in cold weather. I have been using Clays for years, but have noticed some off sounding shells when it gets below freezing. Anyone shooting in the cold weather climates have any experience with this? Thanks.

    Mike in VA
     
  2. Capt. Morgan

    Capt. Morgan TS Member

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    If he is contending that Clays is a single-base powder, it's not. It's a double-base like just about every other powder you can think of. There are other things that could explain your off-sounding shells in the cold like cold shells and low chamber pressure, improper wad seating and/or improper wad selection.

    Morgan
     
  3. k-gunguy

    k-gunguy Member

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    Speaking of Clay-Dot, how have the results been. I saw the price at Connies, would love some feedback before I try.
    Thanks
    GAZ
     
  4. Hipshot 3

    Hipshot 3 TS Member

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    Clays is where its at! Burns cleaner...better for the cold!
     
  5. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    Plagiarism is the sincerest form of flattery.
     
  6. ffwildcat

    ffwildcat TS Member

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    just finished up a keg of clay dot - used it in international loads for my son's bunker practice. that stuff is excellent powder. burns clean, gets the speed up there where we need it without excessive pressure.

    loaded in a STS hull with a TGT wad and a fio616 primer - dynamite load for bunker.

    i've used clays too and this shooter is very satisfied with clay dot.
     
  7. Cold Iron

    Cold Iron Active Member

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    I have used 1 oz. in a STS hull W209 primer and 17.5 gr. of Clays and a .055 crimp at 20 below zero actual temperature with no problems.

    After cold weather issues involving Promo based on the lot you end up with and trying to cheap out with F616 primers a couple of years ago decided it was worth the price to hear a solid bang every time I pulled the trigger. I have no desire to try Clay Dot.

    I asked my FIL why he didn't try Promo and he said "why? Red Dot has worked for me for more than 40 years." I now understand that statement and think about it when someone compares Clays and Clay Dot.
     
  8. blowin smoke

    blowin smoke TS Member

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    Cold Iron, that is my recipe, and pretty much all I needed to hear. The very few off sounding shells I have had over the years were not enough to sway me. Looked on both Hodgdon amd Alliant websites and could not find much data on propellants. Thanks.
     
  9. bigben

    bigben Active Member

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    Cold temps are a non issue when using Clays, the culprit is non oem wads, have used Clays as well as Solo 1000 and put em in the freezer for a week, shot em, no bloopers, just use oem wads, fig 8, tgt 12, 12s3, AA, each wad in the respective manufactures case, no problems. incinerate em!
     
  10. k-gunguy

    k-gunguy Member

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    Thanks for the info,have been using Red Dot for quite a awhile.
    Has anyone compared this ClAY-DOT to Red Dot.
    I have had great scores with the Red Dot,but it is getting expensive. I thought of tring the Clay-Dot,as a replacement. Any comments?
    GAZ
     
  11. Cold Iron

    Cold Iron Active Member

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    GAZ my 2 cents worth: compare the cost between what you can get Red Dot for and Clay Dot. Then use the reloading calculator on here to find out how much difference per box it will save you. I don’t think you will see much even per flat.

    I went to Recobs to compare the price difference and Red Dot and Clay Dot are the same price ($90.99) there.

    I can understand exactly what you’re saying, like I’ve said been there and done that. But how much is it really going to save you against something that you know works? If you have had great scores with Red Dot I'd stay with it and work on getting even better scores. Unless we are in a shoot off together then I want you to try something else....
     
  12. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    I have my ammo right in my truck, weather has been cold and warm. coldest so far was last Wed night. I load Clays 17 grains STS hull, TGT12 wads. I also have a few boxes of the new downrange wad tgt clones that i have been shooting. Win209 primer(thats all avalible to me right now.

    Rem STS 1oz 7.5(bill dawn homemade shot)TGT12 wad 17grains clays win 209 primer. no cold weather bloopers. Also shoot Estates a bit. nothing yet on bloopers. Many guys want to try Clay Dot just not stocked locally.
     
  13. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    From an old friend who has switched from Clays to Claydot, the "Dot" is even cleaner, and is AMERICAN MADE from our friends at ALLIANT.

    50 years of doing this madness has convinced me that the best way to eliminate cold weather performance issues is to keep chamber pressures at 9000 PSI or above.
     
  14. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    I have been told by Alliant and by Hodgdon that Clay Dot actually is as close to identical a formulation as it is possible to make. I buy that. However, that being said, Shooting Coach is right. I did notice Clay Dot is very, very slightly cleaner for the 16lbs I used. The color of the debris is different- black for Clay Dot and gray for Clays. So now I'm thinking why the difference in color, and why did I notice Clay Dot was a little cleaner than Clays.

    Makes you think they are not so identical after all.
     
  15. Capt. Morgan

    Capt. Morgan TS Member

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    Hmmmm...I was told by 2 sources from Alliant that Clay Dot was developed to produce the same pressure and velocity from the same charge weight as Clays but that the formulations are not at all the same.

    Morgan
     
  16. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    Alliant has done their homework. Besides running the Lake City Ammunition Plant for Uncle Sam, they bought out and improved Hercules' powder. They have become a conglomerate with numerous top drawer companies offering products we love.

    Their technical support is great, and the support guys seem to be as addicted to the sport as we are!


    Don't forget, Hercules and Alliant powder (Red Dot) has won more championships than all other powders put together! Is that a hint? ;^)
     
  17. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    The cold weather performance of the two powders is nearly the same, in my experience. Different primer or wad combinations could cause some issues and would be a more probable suspect than these two powders when chasing down the cause of bloopers. They are both double base and seem to work well when loaded to proper pressure levels. Almost any powder that is loaded too lightly could cause bloopers.
     
  18. Hauxfan

    Hauxfan Well-Known Member

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    Having been through 5 kegs of Clay Dot, I see no reason to switch to anything else.......at least for now.

    I used to use Clay's, but Clay Dot is cheaper and I can't tell the difference in performance.

    Clay Dot is so close to Clay's, that when I switched over to use it, I never had to adjust my adjustable charge bar on my Mec.

    I can go from one to the other and it drops the same charge.

    What's not to like about it, and I do shoot in Iowa, and it shoots great in cold weather.

    Hauxfan!
     
  19. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    The "American Made" argument is silly.

    My friend Chris Hodgdon doesn't speak with an Australian accent.

    Is your trap gun "AMERICAN MADE?" I'll bet not. Your car? Or is it just an American nameplate made in Canada or Mexico?

    If you reload for rifles with extruded powder, is that powder AMERICAN MADE? NO, its not!

    I'll buy the "it costs less" argument for Clay Dot, but American Made holds no water. Hodgdon is an American company, which employs American workers, just a few miles from my home.

    And like I said, plagiarism is the sincerest form of flattery. Alliant reverse-engineered it and gave it a name really close to the original. What do you call that?

    BTW, Hodgdon Titewad and Titegroup, also great powders, are "AMERICAN MADE!"
     
  20. k-gunguy

    k-gunguy Member

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    Coldiron
    Made mw laugh,thank-you. The only reason I thought of switching from Res Dot,is because Red Dot is not clean. Out side of that the cost is about the same. I do have many 200's under my belt with Red Dot, sometimes just fin to try something new.GAZ
     
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