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Clay Dot Powder

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by M R Ducks, Mar 29, 2010.

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  1. M R Ducks

    M R Ducks Member

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    So I received my Lyman's reloading manual in the mail and can't find any reference to Clay Dot poweder?? Am I missing something? Which powder reference do I use???

    Joe
     
  2. Remstar311

    Remstar311 Member

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    Go to alliantpowder.com

    They have some loads for clay dot but not very many. I was unhappy about that because they say that you can use clay's loading recipes. Some of the ones that I compared were similar and some weren't. So I just use there load data for Win primers and WW12 wads.
     
  3. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    Clay Dot powder is engineered to produce the same velocity and pressures grain for grain as Clays. That having been said, since one is a single base powder and the other a double base, there will be variations in both P & V. Use Clays data. Stay below 10,200 PSI and 1200 fps and you should be fine.

    MK
     
  4. Mark425

    Mark425 TS Member

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    Only difference between Clays and Claydot is PRICE and AVAILABILITY. Follow the Hodgdon Clays data. I use it, great product and even better price. I gave up on Hodgdon, they cant seem to reliably supply their products.
     
  5. glenns

    glenns Member

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    I've been using Clay Dot for the last year. I use the recipes for Clays with no problem.
     
  6. Grizzlyman

    Grizzlyman Member

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    Clay Dot is great stuff! I used to load the Hodgdon Clays until availability (lack there of) drove me to Alliant's Clay Dot. Now I won't go back, I will stick with Clay Dot. As previous posters have stated, you can use Clays data when loading CD. IMO, there is a slight metering difference, but other than that CD loads the same as Clays.
    Alliant Clay Dot is american made and costs less than the Hodgdon Clays too.
     
  7. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    <blockquote>"Only difference between Clays and Claydot is PRICE and AVAILABILITY."</blockquote>

    WRONG. Clays and Claydot are completely different products with totally different formulations. Clays is a double-based powder; Claydot is single based. Claydot is engineered to produce similar velocity and pressure when metered as Clays but the fact that they are completely different means that there will be some differences between the two when used with some component combinations.

    MK
     
  8. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    Hodgdon lost their law suit against Alliant. Court documents show while there are physical differences, "reloading formulas are similar, if not identical." Wayne

    Edited link
     
  9. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    But what it doesn't contain is the nitrocellulose contained in Clays.

    MK
     
  10. Mark425

    Mark425 TS Member

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    Unknown1,

    So...when you say some difference....what do you mean 10 fps or 500 fps, 1 psi or 1000psi? How do you know this? Does it matter at all or are you just arguing for arguments sake.

    Anyway...the OP asked what data to use. We answered that he could use Hodgdons Clay data which is correct.
     
  11. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    Mark,

    Whether or not you care is not my concern. What I am saying is that the two powders are similar but not identical. Phone Alliant and ask them if Claydot produces "the same" ballistics as Clays and they will tell you "similar". You won't feel the differences, especially in pressure, but you will see them if you have side-by-side P & V tests run on the two powders. The differences are not often significant but they do exist none the less and users need to understand that.

    The same situation exists with Red Dot and Promo... similar, not identical, but they use the same data.

    MK
     
  12. willing

    willing Member

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    Unknown
    If you have this side by side data please publish it here so that all can see.
    Otherwise its just speculation.

    bill
     
  13. Mark425

    Mark425 TS Member

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    From someone I trust. Of course it’s non-scientific and subject to many variables. It's just FYI.

    Loader: MEC 9000 w/ AutoMate.
    Chrony: ProCrono.
    Hull, wad, primer: once-fired black 8-pt Remington Game Load, Green Duster, W209.
    Payload: 7/8's oz #8 Northwest hard shot.
    Outside temperature: 52.7 degrees F.
    Date: 1/9/2010.
    Time: 12 Noon.

    11 shots, factory 1-oz Remington STS 2-3/4 dram, 1,185 fps
    1237 H
    1205 L
    1217 Avg
    32 ES
    10 SD

    10 shots, Alliant Clay dot, 17.3 grns (hand-measured)
    1328 H
    1312 L
    1319 Avg
    16 ES
    6 SD

    10 shots, Hogdon's Clays, 17.3 grns (hand-measured)
    1311 H
    1290 L
    1300 Avg
    21 ES
    6 SD
     
  14. 1240fps

    1240fps TS Member

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    Be careful think these too are exactly the same. I just bought two 8 pd jugs of this powder and have been researching the loading data. Just check both Alliant and Hodgdons site and here is some current info.

    Win AA hull, 18.6 Alliant Clay Dot, Rem 209, Win 12SL = 1250fps, 10840psi

    Win AA hull, 18.6 Hodgdon Clays, Rem 209, Win 12SL = 1235fps, 9200psi

    Pressure is quite different for 15fps
     
  15. Pull Bang

    Pull Bang Member

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    Not being able to find loading data for Clay Dot for my components on hand, I E-mailed Alliant for data for my load.




    THIS IS MY INQUIRY;

    I can not find a recipe on your web site for loading shot shells using Clay Dot powder in the following: Federal Gold Medal Plastic Hulls, Federal 209A primers, WAA12SL wads and one ounce of shot.

    I presently use 17 grains of Hodgdon's Clays powder and would like to try Alliant's Clay Dot in this load.

    I am looking for a one ounce load using Clay Dot with a velocity of 1200fps and the hulls & components above.

    Yes, I do see other one ounce loads using Clay Dot. However, I have a large inventory of: hulls, wads and primers and don't want to purchase other components.



    ALLIANT'S RESPONSE;

    I suggest you try approx 18.5 grs of Clay Dot. This should get you very close to 1200 fps. My guess is your 17 gr Clays recipe is getting you about 1125 fps. Thanks for your note.




    SO;

    I presently use 17.0 grains of Clay Dot. this has been working very well and I continue to use it.


    Frank
     
  16. shannon391

    shannon391 Active Member

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    I load them the same, clay dot seems just a bit stiffer load, over clays.
     
  17. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    <blockquote>"So...when you say some difference....what do you mean 10 fps or 500 fps, 1 psi or 1000psi? How do you know this? Does it matter at all or are you just arguing for arguments sake."</blockquote>

    There's no argument intended here. It's a simple issue for me. I shoot with guys who believe anything they read on the internet, including what shows up on here. I don't want to shoot with people who do their reloading under the impression that one powder is identical to another just because they read it on ts.com. There are no two powders the same... period. Similar maybe, the same, no.

    MK
     
  18. Mark425

    Mark425 TS Member

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    I am with you there. I dont believe 99% of what I read on the tubes either.

    But... I do choose to believe the data or statements that Alliant publishes. Thats all I am saying.
     
  19. M R Ducks

    M R Ducks Member

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    Thanks all. I've been usig a #30 bushing in my 7/8 charge bar on a MEC 9000GN with great results (gunclub/STS/AA hulls, cb1100-12 wad, WIN 209 primer). This combo drops right at 17 gn of powder and produces a smokin' 16 yard and doubles load. I was wondering if I could up the charge and try the same 7/8 at 20-23 yards - say 19 gns. Lymans says yes for clays... Anyway, probably just stick with what I'm doing and maybe cange to a listed powder next time - assuming I can get a good listed powder for about the same price. Otherwise - I'll stick to 17-18 gn and keep going.

    Joe
     
  20. Klay_Buster

    Klay_Buster TS Member

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    Remember that clays and clay dot drop different weights when using the same bushing. My 441 bushing drops 16.8 clays, but 17.4 clay dot. Pushes a 1 oz load 55 fps faster. same as going from 2 3/4 dram eq to 3 dram load.
    Dave M.
     
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