1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

Classification Question

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Clay Addict, Aug 7, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Clay Addict

    Clay Addict Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2007
    Messages:
    213
    I have a buddy that has posted single scores the last 5 times as, 93, 96, 96, 96, 96. His 2007 average is 89.2. I have posted the last 5 scores as 99, 93, 97, 97, 100. My 2007 average is 93.8.

    When classified he was put in D and I was put in A. I am confused...don't mind A class since posting good scores after a lesson with Leo H, just not sure my buddy should be in D. Told him I was going to protest just to give him a hard time...that is what a buddy is for.

    Anyone able to explain?
    CA
     
  2. phirel

    phirel TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,556
    CA- Without a little more information, I cannot comment on what might have happened. I use last years average, this years average, the last 1000 birds, wins and ties and any other information I can see on the card to classify. I also know that from time to time, mistakes are made at the classification table. It is the shooters responsibility to make certain they are classified correctly.

    Pat Ireland
     
  3. Clay Addict

    Clay Addict Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2007
    Messages:
    213
    Pat,
    I suggested that he revisit classification with the 96 he posted yesterday. He has no wins and I have a tie. I think they missed something and he should be B not D. I will keep working on him to revisit classification.
    Thanks,
    CA
     
  4. rmngtngrl

    rmngtngrl TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    505
    I agree with Pat...without more info it is hard to say...his last 500 surely show him shooting out of D class but what do the prevoius scores show??Hard to say wthout the average card in the hand....Kym
     
  5. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,969
    Pat is right. Incidently ATA emphasizes target year history while PITA rules spell out last 1000 targets shot at and abnormally low scores are to be disregarded. Both organizations rely on the good judgement of local shoot management and both organizations recognize known ability from whatever source is available.
     
  6. bcnu

    bcnu Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,197
    His 89.2 is still D class. John
     
  7. smsnyder

    smsnyder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    4,830
    1 93 and 4 96's is minimum of B class. i think the ata goes by averages. That i don't like. Now if the guy had a win with one of those 96 scores at a major shoot. He should be put in B class for one year but only if he won at major event in his D class. He has proven his ability. that's my thoughts. if not this guy can target manage his scores and stay in D class only to shoot a 96 at a major event.
     
  8. bcnu

    bcnu Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,197
    Earl, I really do not think that very many if any people will shoot crappy just to win a D class trophy. Looks to me as if he is just finally getting it all to come together, maybe he just took a clinic or has been using a wall chart. Or maybe, just maybe, it is just his time to grow as a shooter. His last few scores were pretty good and this is the end of the target year so he will probably keep shooting like that and start out in B next year after a shoot or two. One good score in the new target year and your average is going to be starting out alot higher, therefore, it will not take very long to shoot out of D. John
     
  9. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,539
    Location:
    Oxford MA
    smsnyder you managed to find a 93 and 4-96's but you couldn't find his ave. for the year at 89.2.

    I have to agree with Pat also on this one there is not enough information to be able to say one way or the other.

    Bob Lawless
     
  10. bcnu

    bcnu Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,197
    By the way, a 96 at a "major shoot" is not going to win too much.

    Didn't you shoot a few good scores strung together some time ago? Were you moved up 2 class' for a year? I don't think so. That also would not be right.

    We as shooters have to pay our dues so to speak. Not being a youngster with those fast reflexes and great eyesight, we have to depend upon practice and consistency to win and turn in a great score. Good scores don't win, great ones do.

    At least that is what the voices in my head tell me.

    John
     
  11. smsnyder

    smsnyder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    4,830
    i guess known ability don't apply? known ability is the ability to break B or A class scores. i will give you an example. my average in 2006 was 84.15, 85.15 in 2005, 84,22 in 2004. my last 7 shoots in 2007 have been 90, 91,90.90,,93,91,90. my present avg. in 2007 is 86.10. what class should i be in? according to averages i am still a D class shooter. i believe my scores have moved up do to my recent eye operation. I have never won any shoot at any major event since 1992 when i started shooting. I have broken 3 hundred straights in 16 yard events. From what you all are saying is i will be shooting D class in 16 yard event at the Grand. To throw a curve ball into this picture my 20 yard handicap scores have been better than my 16 yard scores lately. it really doesn't matter to me. At the grand you must break them all to win most often. I want to win in a handicap event anyways.
     
  12. bcnu

    bcnu Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,197
    I would put you in D class.

    So, by your logic, being as you have hit 3 100 straights, you have demonstrated an ability to shoot AA. Is that where you belong?

    The reason we use averages is because just a few good scores does not a super shooter make. Now a years worth of them? Yep, a super shooter is born. You start climbing the average ladder when you start off with a good score instead of an 83 or 12. You start off bad, it is more difficult to end with the average you want. Start off with a good score and it is easier to end up with a good year end average.

    And no, I am not running down anyones scores or average. There are many many shooters that have a lot higher average than mine but I keep plugging away. Shooting my own game and not worrying about the other guy. If there were a "secret" to trap shooting, that is it. Get the fundamentals down so they are second nature and your scores WILL soar. Worry about everyone else and you will keep shooting whatever you are shooting.

    Listen to Lanny and get rid of all the negative vibes man, or was that Oddball in Kelly's Heros? Either way, just shoot em.

    John
     
  13. smsnyder

    smsnyder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    4,830
    bcnu, ok don't get mad at me and call me a sandbagger if i run 195 or a 200 straight or win the Gah. if i didn't think i could do it i wouldn't be going. wish me luck. lol
     
  14. bcnu

    bcnu Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,197
    Good luck to you smsnyder, all the best. If you think you can do it, you are half way there. Trap is not rocket science. We make it difficult.

    Just shoot em!

    John
     
  15. smsnyder

    smsnyder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    4,830
    I would like to point out something else that is not considered in averages or proven ability. Some shooters such as me do not to have the mental strength or discipline to keep high averages in this sport shoot after shoot. We do though have the drive, ambition and ability to win. This is the type of shooter that will clubber you at major events if he can keep his composure together for 100 targets. a shooter like this will allways be called a sandbagger. So much for proven ability and averages. lol
     
  16. smsnyder

    smsnyder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    4,830
    thanks bcnu, your a gentleman
     
  17. clayaddict

    clayaddict TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    28
    Just for the record this clay addict is not me. The only average I worry about is mine, and not too much on it. I just try to shoot my best each time.
    J.Woolsey
     
  18. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,229
    Location:
    Mesquite, Nevada
    Earl, your theory won't work so well at the big shoots.

    "This is the type of shooter that will clubber you at major events if he can keep his composure together for 100 targets. a shooter like this will allways be called a sandbagger. So much for proven ability and averages. lol"

    On his "hot" day he manages to break the 100. In the program it states, ties will be carried over to the next 16 yard event? So much for that "hot day" huh? Hot days will never match others abilities and high averages. Hap
     
  19. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,209
    Location:
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Him B - you A
     
  20. phirel

    phirel TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,556
    Some have used the logic that a shooter who has shot 4-5 scores high should be moved up regardless of his average. But, would not the same logic require a shooter who has a high average but shot 4-5 low scores be moved down lower than his average indicates?

    Classification involves consideration of all the shooters information. Even the doubles scores and the handicap yardage can give some clues. I would look very close at a card of a 27 yard shooter with a 93 doubles average that indicates a class C singles average. I have seen such cards.

    Pat Ireland
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.