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Classification Problem/Question

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by phirel, Jan 24, 2010.

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  1. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    At the Dixie Grand, shooters with less than 1000 handicap targets (last 2 years) were penalized to a minimum of 23 yards. But special category shooters (Vet, Sr Vet, Lady, Jr, Sub Jr) were only penalized to the 20 yard line.

    The new rule makes declaration of a special category optional. A Vet shooter with only 700 handicap targets is classified. The computer shows he is a Vet and should shoot from the 20 yard line; however, he elects to wave his Vet category (smart thing to do at that shoot). What yardage should he shoot from?

    Pat Ireland

    PS- This actually happened a few times at the Dixie. I obtained inconsistent answers for members of the EC.
     
  2. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    23. If he doesn't declare vet, he's not a vet.

    Neil
     
  3. starshot2b

    starshot2b TS Member

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    My guess -- if he's waiving "special category," wouldn't he then shoot from his regular yardage?

    **update**

    Guess I should pay more attention to the entire question!
     
  4. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    Pat, as Neil stated there should be no doubt, 23. However and only if he would or they should represent themselves via shooting in their respective category would they be able to shoot on the 20.
     
  5. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Veteran status is based on age. By not declaring as a Vet, does that make the shooter younger? Could a Vet not declare as a Vet all year long and make the Vet All American team or would he be restricted to just the Mens All American team. We have one shooter who would probably be able to do this. A few years ago a Lady had enough points to make the All American Team. Our response was to change the name of the team to the Mens All American Team and put her in the Ladies All American Team.

    Pat Ireland

    PS- I classified these shooters on the 23 yard line, but I am not totally convinced I did the right thing.
     
  6. ed_schultz

    ed_schultz TS Member

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    ok first off im new to this so called ATA thingy but ill give you my opinion on this matter.

    first off WHY are there special categories in the first place????
    why cant everyone just buck up and compete against one another???
    WHY ?? WHY ??? what is being taught by haveing these special categories???
    all it is doing is draing the money, thats what its doing. more trophies more trophies. why is a lil child more special than sumone between the age of 21-54??? if they wanna compete , let them compete against everyone and no falling back to their special lil category

    next thing that gonna happen is all these special intrest groups in ATA will want disscounts on target prices, thats right disscounts.
    best thing the ATA could do is do away with all special category trophies and just give 2 trophies per event, champ and runner up.

    if you cant win one of these then you need to practice more or take a lesson from one of the proffesional amatures amoungest or ranks who put clinics on to subsides the small payouts that we have now days or get a personal coach, i hear their is one in tennessee .
     
  7. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    Am I correct in assuming that before we got this new rule about Category Shooters must shoot off for their Category trophies if their score qualifies, they would declare Special Category without even thinking about it?? This year the Canadian Championship will be held in Vancouver and shooters can earn ATA All American points so the new Category rules should apply. Did I mention that it is a PITA Shoot with ATA cross registration. PITA has normal common sense rules for Category shooters. How should the program for the Canadian Championship Shoot be worded ??
     
  8. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    What Neil said.
     
  9. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Oh come on, Pat! Not declaring vet does not make him younger, it just makes him a non-member of the vet category at that shoot. We now make lady shooters choose, say lady or junior. Have we made one who choses junior a man? Don't be silly; she is just not a member of the lady category. The vet can't be an All-American because he (or she) can't get any vet AA points and could be on the men's team if he or she gets enough men's points.

    Neil
     
  10. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    At the Dixie Grand, shooters with less than 1000 handicap targets (last 2 years) were penalized to a minimum of 23 yards. But special category shooters (Vet, Sr Vet, Lady, Jr, Sub Jr) were only penalized to the 20 yard line.

    The new rule makes declaration of a special category optional. A Vet shooter with only 700 handicap targets is classified. The computer shows he is a Vet and should shoot from the 20 yard line; however, he elects to wave his Vet category (smart thing to do at that shoot). What yardage should he shoot from?

    Pat Ireland

    PS- This actually happened a few times at the Dixie. I obtained inconsistent answers for members of the EC.
     
  11. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    23. If he doesn't declare vet, he's not a vet.

    Neil
     
  12. starshot2b

    starshot2b TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    704
    My guess -- if he's waiving "special category," wouldn't he then shoot from his regular yardage?

    **update**

    Guess I should pay more attention to the entire question!
     
  13. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,734
    Pat, as Neil stated there should be no doubt, 23. However and only if he would or they should represent themselves via shooting in their respective category would they be able to shoot on the 20.
     
  14. phirel

    phirel TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
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    9,556
    Veteran status is based on age. By not declaring as a Vet, does that make the shooter younger? Could a Vet not declare as a Vet all year long and make the Vet All American team or would he be restricted to just the Mens All American team. We have one shooter who would probably be able to do this. A few years ago a Lady had enough points to make the All American Team. Our response was to change the name of the team to the Mens All American Team and put her in the Ladies All American Team.

    Pat Ireland

    PS- I classified these shooters on the 23 yard line, but I am not totally convinced I did the right thing.
     
  15. ed_schultz

    ed_schultz TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2010
    Messages:
    26
    ok first off im new to this so called ATA thingy but ill give you my opinion on this matter.

    first off WHY are there special categories in the first place????
    why cant everyone just buck up and compete against one another???
    WHY ?? WHY ??? what is being taught by haveing these special categories???
    all it is doing is draing the money, thats what its doing. more trophies more trophies. why is a lil child more special than sumone between the age of 21-54??? if they wanna compete , let them compete against everyone and no falling back to their special lil category

    next thing that gonna happen is all these special intrest groups in ATA will want disscounts on target prices, thats right disscounts.
    best thing the ATA could do is do away with all special category trophies and just give 2 trophies per event, champ and runner up.

    if you cant win one of these then you need to practice more or take a lesson from one of the proffesional amatures amoungest or ranks who put clinics on to subsides the small payouts that we have now days or get a personal coach, i hear their is one in tennessee .
     
  16. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,964
    Am I correct in assuming that before we got this new rule about Category Shooters must shoot off for their Category trophies if their score qualifies, they would declare Special Category without even thinking about it?? This year the Canadian Championship will be held in Vancouver and shooters can earn ATA All American points so the new Category rules should apply. Did I mention that it is a PITA Shoot with ATA cross registration. PITA has normal common sense rules for Category shooters. How should the program for the Canadian Championship Shoot be worded ??
     
  17. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    Scottsdale, AZ
    What Neil said.
     
  18. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Oh come on, Pat! Not declaring vet does not make him younger, it just makes him a non-member of the vet category at that shoot. We now make lady shooters choose, say lady or junior. Have we made one who choses junior a man? Don't be silly; she is just not a member of the lady category. The vet can't be an All-American because he (or she) can't get any vet AA points and could be on the men's team if he or she gets enough men's points.

    Neil
     
  19. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Neil- It is quite possible one shooter could earn enough points to make the Vet team and then quit declaring as a Vet and then earn enough additional points to make the Mens team.

    miketmx - The program should be worded with great care. I do not know the PITA rules and am not able to help you in any way.

    Pat Ireland

    PS- Neal, as you can probably guess, I am opposed to the rule designed to assist management at the expense of the shooters.
     
  20. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    But Pat, you wrote " a Vet not declare as a Vet all year long and make the Vet All American team" which is different from getting his vet points and then earning men's points. But he can't be on both, only the one where he has the better standing (not necessarily the most points.) It's in the book.

    Neil
     
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