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Cheditte primers

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by thrillr89, Aug 7, 2007.

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  1. thrillr89

    thrillr89 Member

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    I was wondering (hoping), if chedittes might be a direct replacement for Win 209 or Rem. 209 primers in one ounce trap reloads? I can not seem to find too many loads in my data, usually I use clays or international clays powder. Thanks Dave
     
  2. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    They are NOT a "direct" replacement for ANY primer. They are "similar" to the Winchester W209, but certainly NOT a "direct" replacement. Pressures and consistency can react quite differently with different primers.

    If you use data for Winchester primers and select loads that develop pressures on the low side, you should usually be safe enough. I would place a call to, or email to Hodgdon and see if you can get their recommendation for some decent 1 oz loads. Be sure to tell them the EXACT components you wish to use.
     
  3. 45er

    45er TS Member

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    I'm on my sixth thousand-count box of Cheddites and have NEVER had a misfire or anything that even looks like it might be excessive pressure (such as flattened primers in the hulls). I load them in AA's, STS's and Federal/Estate hulls. Although I don't load "maximum loads", I don't load powder-puffs either. $115/thousand beats the heck out of $149/thousand for WW209's any day!

    Rob
     
  4. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    45er

    There really are no reliable visual indicators for high or excessive pressure in a shotshell such as flattened primers, etc. Rifles and even Pistols work at substantially higher pressures and even then, primer appearance is not always 100% reliable. Even velocity is not a good indicator for pressure changes. The only reliable method would be to test pressures with appropriate testing equipment.

    The really hot primers are usually the CCI 209M, The Federal 209A, and the Rio G-600. Swapping primers can have three effects on pressure. It can Increase, Decrease, or stay the same. Which one you get is a crap shoot, at best, and can vary depending on other components and a long list of other variables such as crimp depth, etc. I'm not saying that you "can't" swap primers, just that you need to use some common sense and caution if you choose to do so. That's pretty sound advice when you work with stuff that goes "bang"!
     
  5. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    I used Cheddites interchangeably with Win. 209s for several years. Never had an oversize problem, never had a blooper or failure to fire, only reverted to Winchesters full time when the price was too close to matter (the next big purchase may require re-thinking) and the only sign of a difference was maybe MAYBE a minimal increase in velocity over the chrono; the difference was within normal variance with either primer but averaged 5 to 10 fps higher with cheddites. I know I must have used 20 sleeves of them....breakemall....Bob Dodd
     
  6. Rico46

    Rico46 TS Member

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    It seems the cheddite primers are a much "harder" primer than the standard Winchester 209. My buddy shoots an SKB and when he was using cheddite primers, he was going through firing pins constantly. Once he stopped using them the problem went away!

    Rick Brohmer
     
  7. 45er

    45er TS Member

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    Good points Quack Shot, but I keep well within max load limits and was told by a major local supplier of reloading supplies and owner of a shooting range that he and "the locals" have been shooting Cheddites in direct substitution for Win 209's for years without a hitch. Good enough for me.

    I know a few years ago Cheddites went through a period where firing pins were penetrating the primers and the heat was making the pins brittle and they were breaking. The last 6000 I've shot recently haven't had one such incident.

    Rob
     
  8. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    45er, it seems to me that it was certain guns that were badly affected by this firing pin issue; Brownings seem to stick in what's left of my mind. In my case, I shot thousands of them through an SX-1, 2 Rem 3200s, a KS-5 Special, and a M32 Kreighoff without ever having a failure resembling this issue. The only firing pin I've ever had to replace was on the M32 and that's after using Winchester primers for the last 5 or 6 years, and why not break after 40+ years of use?....Bob Dodd
     
  9. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    I've never had a Cheddite primer puncture, burn through, or misfire, that I can recall. That does not mean it can't happen, just that I have never had it happen in any of my guns. I have not fired any in a Browning, so maybe that's part of the equation. They have worked well for me, but are now priced so close to the more popular primers like Winchester, Federal, CCI, and Remington that I can see no reason to buy them anymore. They were only about ten dollars less per 5000 than the Winchesters when I saw them last. When they were fourty dollars less, it was a great deal. I just haven't seen them at a great price lately and the Fiocchi 616 primers have gone up as well. Even the Rio primers aren't all that cheap anymore. I'd rather just use the exact primer that the data was compiled with if there is little difference in cost.

    You'd be surprised at how many reloaders just swap components around without much regard to pressure or performance. There's a saying about God looking out for Drunks and Children. Add careless and incompetent reloaders to that list. The problem with high pressure loads is simple. The effects may not be evident until many thousand rounds have been fired. It's the cumulative stress and fatigue that can cause trouble. One high pressure load is not usually enough to cause noticable damage. Fire ten thousand or more of them and you may have a failure of some sort.
     
  10. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Good advice from Sir Dodd and Quack Shot!

    I don't use Cheddites and I've read those are the most used primers world-wide. Quack Shot posted some very interesting facts concerning metal above.

    "The effects may not be evident until many thousand rounds have been fired. It's the cumulative stress and fatigue that can cause trouble. One high pressure load is not usually enough to cause noticable damage. Fire ten thousand or more of them and you may have a failure of some sort."

    What he posted holds true for all barrel metals. Even the softest mild steel when subjected to repeated heating and cooling, can shatter like glass when struck with a large hammer!! Most shotgun barrel metal is made with 4140 high carbon steel, much stronger than mild steel tensile strength wise, it is vulnerable to the same effects but withstands more initially. Hap
     
  11. 45er

    45er TS Member

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    BDodd,

    I did experience "burn throughs" with Cheddites about five years ago. About 1 in 10 shot out of a Browning Ultra XS would experience this. I think they fixed this problem and as I have said, the last 6,000 I've shot have shown no sign of this problem. Cheddites are currently $25 per 5,000 cheaper than Winchesters and despite all the good advice on watching recipes, I'm still not worried about the loads I'm creating causing excessive pressures. I don't get up the the max on powder in my loads so I'm comfortable that the pressures are not excessive.

    45er
     
  12. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Winchester primers have a slight taper that is designed to fit into the tapered primer hole of Winchester hulls. It would seem logical that if the shape of the primer hull was changed slightly by inserting a straight walled primer and then switching back to the tapered primer could result in some gas leakage around the primer hole.

    It may cost me just a bit more to reload my hulls but I do not substitute anything.

    Pat Ireland
     
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cheddite primers stronger than w209