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Cheddite--Im Confused

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by nipper, Feb 26, 2008.

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  1. nipper

    nipper TS Member

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    I have searched old threads and have found posts where cheddite primers do expand primer pockets, I have also found posts where cheddite primers dont expand primer pockets. I reload only aa old,new,all types as well. Is the answer yes they do or no they dont??

    Also a supplier told me winchester primers are now being made by cheddite,can anyone confirm this??

    Bill
     
  2. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    The older CX-1000 Cheddites with black sealer are oversized for American hulls. The newer CX-2000 with red sealer are standard size.

    Even if they do expand primer pockets, who cares? With Winchester primers approaching $175 a case, the chances of me using them are ZERO.

    I prefer the Cheddite and Rio primer. Nobels are good also.

    Winchester and Remington primers are vendored. Rumor has it that Winchester makes their own primer mix, but who knows?

    A LOT of powder, hulls and primers are made by ammo companies for other ammo companies. You would be surprised at the stuff shared by competing companies.
     
  3. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Many in our club using them because of cost.

    NOt a problem/

    I use Fiocchi, same deal.

    HM
     
  4. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    They work like a champ, ALWAYS go bang, and are a lot less than domestics. What's not to love?
     
  5. K80433SC

    K80433SC Member

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    I've used the Cheddite primer for a few years now -- on & off again -- as I could get them. I have never actually had any problems with them, whether black or red sealer. They have been a very reliable and consistent product, with no failures experienced.

    I HAVE experienced a "stretching" of the primer pocket by the Rio primer. For that reason, I stopped using them about 2 years ago. Perhaps they have corrected the issue, but I cannot speak from experience...........I sold all the remaining Rio primers that I had in my inventory.

    Speaking of the Cheddite primer...........where can I get them ? I've been having a great deal of trouble finding anyone who handles them in my area. I live in northeastern PA.

    Any help would be appreciated.........
     
  6. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    If you do use a primer that expands the pocket, then the case should only be loaded again with the larger primer. A good seal between the primer and the case head is important. If you have a black ring around the firing pin hole, you do not have a good seal between the primer and the case.

    Pat Ireland
     
  7. Capt. Morgan

    Capt. Morgan TS Member

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    " A good seal between the primer and the case head is important. If you have a black ring around the firing pin hole, you do not have a good seal between the primer and the case."

    ...and shoot sloppy primers often enough and you'll eventually notice that the hot gases are burning little pits into the breech face around the firing pin.

    Morgan
     
  8. Capt. Morgan

    Capt. Morgan TS Member

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    FYI...

    The current production of Fiocchi primers seems to have been "dumbed down" to reduce costs.
    The chamber pressures they produce vary greatly from primer to primer and they are considered by some who know put them at the bottom of the list of primers as far as quality is concerned.

    Morgan
     
  9. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    I have had punctured primers (2-4%) with the Cheddites in a K-80. I do not use them in that gun. No problem in my gf's BT99. They have always gone bang.

    I prefer the Fiocchi's for a less expensive alternative to the Winchester 209 that I have always used.

    It is disappointing that we can acquire off-shore primers for 20-35% less than a domestic product. Last year I reloaded about 25,000 shells. I saved about $45 a sleeve with the Fiocchi's/Cheddites - so about $250 total. I thought I was smart - maybe I was.

    There was always the question of how compatible the load data was with a primer substitution. Many say it make very little difference - frankly I do not know. With light loads it probably makes no difference.

    This year, my goal is to get to the 25 yard line. That means a Handicap load with more punch. I do not want to wonder if my loads are safe. I will revert back to Winchesters as there is a plethora of data for that primer.

    In the big scheme of things (over $20,000 spent on guns, stock fittings, ammo, components, shoot costs etc etc) $250 seems like a small saving to me. Definitely not worth the worry or the hassle of changing over primers between different loads. YMMV

    Don
     
  10. Capt. Morgan

    Capt. Morgan TS Member

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    "It is disappointing that we can acquire off-shore primers for 20-35% less than a domestic product."

    It shouldn't be if you consider that the off-shore primers (Fiocchi & Rio in my experience) have been shown to be far more inconsistent in the chamber pressures they generate than Winchesters, Federals or Remingtons.

    Morgan
     
  11. nipper

    nipper TS Member

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    Well just picked up 5000 of the red seals and traded out 3 buckets of weights for 6 more bags of shot so will load some later on and report back, at 115.00 i think they will be just fine.

    Bill
     
  12. trappermike

    trappermike Well-Known Member

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    Interesting that so many people are talking about shooting less because of the cost, but $250 a year really does not make a difference. Please do not be offended, but if I can save $250 a few or four times a year, it comes to about $1000, do it a few more times and it gets to be real money. Not to the government, but to me. BTW I still use Winchester 209's because I couldn't get a sample of the others to try.

    :)
    Mike
     
  13. alfermann66

    alfermann66 Member

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    Capt., do you really consider Springfield, MO to be "off shore"? (if you consider that the off-shore primers (Fiocchi )

    Buz
     
  14. Capt. Morgan

    Capt. Morgan TS Member

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    The Hondas built in Marysville are all still Japanese motorcycles. The Fiocchi company has been located in Lecco, Italy for more than a century. The design and the material/performance specs for the primers come from the parent company overseas. It doesn't matter to me the nationality of the hands that assemble the parts; they are still designed and engineered to meet Italian specifications and performance criteria.

    Morgan
     
  15. tcr1146

    tcr1146 Well-Known Member

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    Question to captain Morgan:
    "Pressures have been shown to be far more inconsistent-----"! Can you site where this has been shown please? Thanks, Tom Rhoads
     
  16. BRGII

    BRGII TS Member

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    Yes Cap, I would be interested to know that as well. MR II
     
  17. Capt. Morgan

    Capt. Morgan TS Member

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    I've been contracting my own series of pressure and velocity tests on combinations for which there is little or no published data, mainly Rio and anything and Clay Dot and anything. It's not been cheap but it beats damaging a gun.

    The data I've generated has shown a much wider range of pressure values (for the same number of samples) for those import primers I've tested (from the same numbered lots) than what is generated by the Winchester/Remington primers they have been tested against.

    Morgan
     
  18. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    Without wandering through the whole thread, I'll say this for nipper and his original question. Bill, I've bought and used at least 100,000 Cheddites over several years, maybe 10 years. They've always had the red sealer on them. I've used them interchangeably with Winchester primers and NEVER had an issue with deformed primer pockets going back and forth. I DO know that Cheddites will give me just a slight increase in velocity averages over an Oehler 35P chronograph but not enough to exceed velocities of individual samples from any group with Winchesters. I DO load rather light with plenty of room for a bit more pressure but will continue to use them interchangeably with the winchesters I have on hand (from well before the current price jumps). The question of whether Cheddite is making Winchesters now is a new rumor to me.....breakemall....Bob Dodd
     
  19. BRGII

    BRGII TS Member

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    I have noticed some Remington shells that have blue Cheddite hulls and Cheddite primers. They have 6 star crimp with the white plastic inner wad. I too haven't heard the rumor about Winchester though. MR II
     
  20. HDLLLIII

    HDLLLIII Member

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    Captain, How do you measure pressures? What equipment are you using? How many tests have you conducted? I do not want to damage my shotgun, but have been using Cheddite primers in AA hulls with Promo powder and have had excellent performance and results...Please save me from myself if you know something I don't realize. Thanks....Larry Lockhart
     
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