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Cheating

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Shotgun5, Jul 11, 2008.

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  1. Shotgun5

    Shotgun5 Member

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    I was at the Penna. Grand over the weekend and sat behind a squad in front of use to shoot. The trap broke down infront of us so it put us one behind.This let us watch the squad shoot there full 25 targets.When the person on the center post missed a sraight away target when it was his turn.He missed the target and the puller called lost target!Now what happens next is what really upset me to no end!! The leadoff man which is now on the fifth post looks back at the puller and said illegal target and gets the shooter on post 4 to go along with him.The target was miss painted when it went out and had a black center.Now the too of them tell the puller that the man on the center post can shoot over again because it was an illegal target.Now he shoots again and hits the target.ATA rules state on page29 section C-3 That if he or she fires at the target the result must be scored!!! So the shooter should have never shoot at another target!! Now these Five people where all 27 yd shooters and must have known better,but they forced the the girl to change the score.Now what i'am getting at should i have stopped the shoot and ask for a REF ?
     
  2. trapshootin hippie

    trapshootin hippie Well-Known Member

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    Illegal target????
     
  3. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    It probably was not mispainted. It was probably missing the center of the target and just appeared black. If so it would be a broken target, no target, and should be reshot under the rules. HMB
     
  4. Recoil Sissy

    Recoil Sissy Well-Known Member

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    shotgun5:

    Your note indicates the center of the target, i.e. the dome, was black. I will acknowledge in advance that anything is possible however, a target with the center knocked out is far more likely than a target in which the rim was painted but the dome was not.

    Moreover, if a target with a black center was in the air, it would be all but impossible to determine whether that target had a bad paint job or was missing the center of the dome.

    Under the circumstances as you described them, I would be very hesitant to conclude they were 'cheating'.

    sissy

    ps: the applicable rule is Section VII, Subsection E., rule 2.

    The list of situations that are 'no targets' and must be shot over includes, "... when the target is thrown broken, regardless of the result of any shot fired."
     
  5. Trap2

    Trap2 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with HMB. Very common occurance for the center to be broken in a target, which would result in a "no target" call. I would prefer to give those 27yd shooters the benefit of the doubt than to think they would all conspire to get one target for another shooter. Relax, don't let it upset you too much. It will, at some time or another, happen to you if you shoot long enough.... Dan Thome (Trap2)
     
  6. bobdog

    bobdog Active Member

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    The rules do not require you to shoot at an irregularly painted target.

    Once you shoot at it and miss, however, it seems to me that you eat it no matter what color it is or whether the dome was missing, even if the whole squad agrees. You shot and missed. Nobody made you shoot at it. If you hit it, then it was an illegal bird and it's a reshoot.

    As a spectator, however, I'm not sure how much say you have in the matter.
     
  7. trapshootin hippie

    trapshootin hippie Well-Known Member

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    Bobdog, do ya think maybe that the target was thrown broken, the center missing might indicate a broken target? Ya are allowed to reshoot a broken target according to rule 7e2 on page 31. Just a thought.


    Gne J
     
  8. bobdog

    bobdog Active Member

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    Not if you shoot at it and miss if I remember the rules correctly.

    If you hit it, you must reshoot it.
     
  9. Dickgshot

    Dickgshot Well-Known Member

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    My guess is that five 27 shooters knew the rules and recognized a broken target and called it a broken bird, not an irregular target and shotgun5 wasn't close enough to hear what they called it.
     
  10. trapshootin hippie

    trapshootin hippie Well-Known Member

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    E. NO TARGET
    2. In a singles event when the target is thrown broken regardless of the results of any shot fired.

    Page 31
     
  11. bobdog

    bobdog Active Member

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    Thanks, if it's deemed a broken bird. If it's a mispainted bird, a different rule applies:

    9. When a target whose color is markedly different from that of the others is thrown, and the contestant does not fire. If the contestant fires, the result must be scored.
     
  12. trapshootin hippie

    trapshootin hippie Well-Known Member

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    Bobdog, I believe what we have here is a "no target", referenced on page 31, instead of a lost target on page 29. Might be wrong though.

    Gne J
     
  13. bobdog

    bobdog Active Member

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    I agree.
     
  14. Jerry944t

    Jerry944t Well-Known Member

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    I was at the shoot. we had several birds that were missing centers making it appear that they had a black painted center.

    In that case it is a "no bird" and must be re shot regardless of the results.

    They were following the rules which is not cheating.

    Jerry
     
  15. Post  2

    Post 2 TS Member

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    It was a "No Target", and you as a spectator have no say in the matter. Post-2
     
  16. bas

    bas Member

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    If it was a broken target....it must be shot over - as, it is considered a "no target"....and, which is most probably what it was. The shooter on post 5 who called it an "illegal" target, just described it incorrectly. Many shooters use the incorrect terms. Of course, as many above have posted...an illegal target, if shot at, must be scored.
     
  17. Delbert

    Delbert TS Member

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    If the shooter had hit the target, do ya suppose nothing would have been said about the target being illegal, broken, or whatever.

    No matter how you cut it, those squadmates who claimed the target should be shot over because it was illegal were wrong. They would have been right if they had claimed the target was broken, but they didn't do that. While this probably doesn't qualify as cheating, it does point out that most shooters don't have a clue what the rulebook says about much of anything. In fact, most have probably never even seen a current rulebook.
     
  18. Robb

    Robb Member

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    How did it fly? I thought a target missing the center would be slow and fall short.
     
  19. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Targets with the center missing do not fly appreciably different from whole targets. And, on my squad, when a target with the center missing is hit, the shooter does shoot the target over.

    bas- Yes, the correct call would be "no target" and a no target cannot be either a legal or illegal target.

    Pat Ireland
     
  20. perga1

    perga1 Active Member

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    I have seen and experienced the "no center" target many times. I think it unlikely the outside steps of the target would receive paint and the center not. It was in all probability a broken target and it was required that it be shot over. I have seen many shot and broken and re-shot. They do fly amazingly like a whole target. JRM
     
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