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Cheating/sandbagging

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by yakimaman, Dec 17, 2012.

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  1. yakimaman

    yakimaman Well-Known Member

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    Here's the scenario: Well known shooter, travels, shoots many events, shoots over 5,000 singles a year. ATA website shows averages for the last 7 years and never one below 91.8% and most are in upper 90s. ATA average for the year prior to this event was 94.32 But, this shooter shoots 4 events in the upper 80s and then walks into a major shoot and gets classified as a D shooter and takes first place with a score of 96. I'm sure this shooter was very proud of whatever trinket was won but gotta say stuff like this, in my humble opinion, disgruntles more new shooters than anything. The good ol boy club at the classification desk needs to go away.

    Rich
     
  2. Catpower

    Catpower Molon Labe TS Supporters

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    Maybe he was just in a slump at the 4 events that he shot poorly

    Sometimes we all get in slumps might be stress of something else
     
  3. Catching Chrome

    Catching Chrome Member

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    I agree with you Rich, I know when I shoot in local competition I want to shoot against guys of similar abilities. To me what pride is there in lying about your skill level just so you can say you won. I know when I win I feel good because I know I have competed against the best shooters and shot my best. That is where I get satisfaction.
     
  4. John Galt

    John Galt TS Member

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    "everyone I have ever heard of has been accused of sandbagging at sometime or another."

    Truer words have never been spoken. Everybody is a sandbagger to somebody- the worse you shoot the more sandbaggers there are- LOL.

    It's a miracle a 96 won anything in D class at a major shoot. The others must have all been sandbagging for the Grand.
     
  5. fssberson

    fssberson Active Member

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    Mac1: I agree with you regarding age and health. All of us age differently. I turned 67.. a good age to be, but legs, back and hands are gone. I range from 95's to a recent 78. Avergae is in the mid-80's, but at one time I was a AA shooter and had won state championships. So I get ranked as an A... if I only could. That ranking is OK with me and flattering... My attitude is now just go and have fun! Fred
     
  6. yakimaman

    yakimaman Well-Known Member

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    D shooter folks, with a well documented average quite a bit above that level - should have been classified on "known ability" not 400 targets out of the last 4,000. When you go to the classification desk and present your plastic card you should be classified with the average that comes up on the ATA computer - not what you say, not what your rep says, not what your buddy behind the desk gives you. If your scores at ATA aren't up to date, that's ATA's fault and the club you shot at. Get rid of the paper card all together.
     
  7. SeldomShoots

    SeldomShoots Active Member

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    I hadn't heard of a person being reclassifed after shooting 400 targets? Is that something that happens often?
     
  8. CalvinMD

    CalvinMD Well-Known Member

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    I can totally relate...I'm almost 53..still very young in most folks eyes...but after many health problems and permanant eye disease that is just expected to get worse in time, my consistancy is out the window...Its frustrating to the max as my good days can be great and my bad days horrible...would that make me a sandbagger..on paper I'm sure it would look that way
     
  9. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Rick Barker, you handled that situation as a true sportsman, I applaud you guy!

    Like Calvin, I get very few days per month that I can get through 100 targets pain free. On such pain free days, I usually post good scores, other days, not so good at all!

    Hap
     
  10. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Rick, I agree but too many times we see shoot management have to catch those miscues first?

    Hap
     
  11. Shootrman

    Shootrman Member

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    Yakiaman, sounds like many guys I know. A guy who likes to shoot, goes all the time and he gets laughed at. He goes to a shoot, has his one day in the sun. Instead of praising or congratulating him, he is a Sandbagger. Maybe it jealousy, same Sandbagger class, my guess - ignorance
     
  12. wm rike

    wm rike Member

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    I was always of the impression that a person was classified on the basis of the last thousand birds or known ability, or something like that. There are untold examples of very good shooters showing up at the Grand and getting thrown into the C and D classes and cleaning up. I always wonder about that. Worse yet, in the past few years I have frequently been classified on the basis of my last event, both good and bad. The classification process just needs to be more rigorous.
     
  13. YOTESLAYER

    YOTESLAYER Member

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    I would hate to drive an hour to a shoot knowing-well im going to shoot scores below my ability on purpose, makes no sense to me. I shoot to the best of my ability each and every time I step to the line, some days that is terrible and some days its great or anywhere in between. I understand why some guys do it, and I hate when I see it. I saw a perfect example this fall, and it ruined a new shooters chance of winning leather in his first ever ATA event, I felt terrible for him. The sandbaggers sometimes dont realize they are taking prizes away from other shooters, maybe kids and new shooters. That shooter was lucky I was not classifing, he wouldnt have been in the wrong class.
     
  14. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Amazingly we have shooters who go out and break 69's/100, go back out, shoot a special event and proceed to break another 69/100. Neither are they concerned about shooting bloopy shells in local ATA events but bring out the factories and play the money at a major shoot. Funny how they can break 74/75 in a major handicap, turn to their buddy and ask what should they do next. Then proceed to break 19/25. I must be really stupid to believe that's just luck!!
     
  15. yakimaman

    yakimaman Well-Known Member

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    Shootrman - can you read? I'm talking about the classification desk putting a well known shooter in a class lower than they should be in when all records indicate they should have been put in a higher class. Funny how this person can shoot thousands of targets with a C or B average - have a 94% average at the beginning of the target year then shoot 88,86,89,88 and get put in D class at a Grand and win it with a 96. If the desk had put this person in the class indicated by the ATA average - perhaps a legitimate D class shooter would have won the trinket instead. This shooter knows damn good and well where they should have been and since the shooter often frequents the club involved, the classification people should have know it as well.
     
  16. Shootrman

    Shootrman Member

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    I can read, thank you for asking.
     
  17. Brady509

    Brady509 Well-Known Member

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    If your tired of the sandbagging there are none that I have in my class AA or in my yardage 26. Just get better and quit bitching. We all had to work our way through the ranks. Hell I went from C class to AA and lose lots of money. Shoot for fun not for money or a pos prize.

    Ink'em

    Brady Gies
     
  18. yakimaman

    yakimaman Well-Known Member

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    So it's ok with you AA guys if people below you cheat? Is that what I'm hearing?
     
  19. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    yakimaman, if you want to see some real absurdity just report known sandbaggers to the handicap and classification committee. I can tell you just how far you'll get!!
     
  20. Auctioneer

    Auctioneer Well-Known Member

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    How to stop it? Easy, once you go up a class you stay there. No going down. You win your class you go up and you stay there. No going down in class.

    Sandbagging is a cancer in trapshooting but the ATA will do nothing about it. Hell look at all the D nad C class shooters who shoot 98 99 100. We have cowards on the Board who don't want to do a thing.
     
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