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Cheating- I saw this

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by phirel, Jan 22, 2009.

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  1. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    At a recent large shoot I saw this on the squad I followed. A shooter, using an O/U was having problems with poor shells. On the first trap, he had two very weak loads but the wad cleared the barrel and the birds were lost.

    While walking to the next field, he picked up a used wad from the ground and stuck it in his upper barrel. He was shooting the bottom barrel. On the next field, he got another weak load. He promptly blew the wad out of the upper barrel in a way that everyone saw it fall out and he was allowed to shoot the bird over. He also picked up the wad and put it in his pocket, possibly for future use. At the least, the shooter was ingenious.

    I reported this story to the management and it was agreed that the situation involved my observations against the story that could be made up by the shooter. The shooter ended up with a low score that was not in contention. Should anything else be done?

    Pat Ireland
     
  2. shadow

    shadow Active Member

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    Cheaters are never winners and true winners are never cheaters.
     
  3. j2jake

    j2jake Well-Known Member

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    The shooter should be questioned as to what was happening. Just to let him/her know someone had seen the deed. We had a situtation, at the same shoot I suspect, where a target was scored dead where the shooter and three other squad members knew it was lost. Upon questioning the scorer the individual defended the dead call. I left the option of correction to the young shooter. After a short discussion with the scorer we left. Thru the next couple of days I had the opportunity to have the same scorer again. Yes we were remembered and the attention span of the scorer was much improved. Jake
     
  4. kiwiG

    kiwiG Member

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    To be brutally honest Pat...the shooter involved now holds little regard with you, and with those who chose to take your word. That is enough. Eventually ...everyone gets exactly what is coming to them. Don't stress about it, tell everyone you know (in private conversations) who this shooter is. Karma will fry his ass. Kind Regards-Graham.
     
  5. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    Shoot management should have confronted the lowlife, advised him that his demeanor would not be tolerated, he would be closely monitored and disqualified if any further incidents occur.

    Reliable information from someone of Pat's standing lends substance to the allegation!!

    Curt
     
  6. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Pat, now everyone will be carrying spare wads in there pockets.
     
  7. Pipe Layer

    Pipe Layer Well-Known Member

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    Pat,
    Follow your gut feelings.You know what should be done and you a lone only can make that decision. I have all the faith in the world of you making a decision you can live with.I have no dought to what you saw but did anyone else see it as a witness to help your case? If not it would be your word against his and hard to battle. I would let the ATA heads know who he is and maybe he can be watched at other shoots.


    Your Friend,
    Terry Dean
     
  8. Jerry944t

    Jerry944t Well-Known Member

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    I probably would have made the offender aware that his actions were witnessed. Even though his score was not competitive it could have affected things like the Lewis payoff.
     
  9. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    When one cheats shooting a game, he's only cheating himself. For who is he really shooting aganist, himself. And it all catches up, sooner or later.
     
  10. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Very interesting story. It is very sad that management chose to take no action in this matter. Just another strike against the sport of trapshooting, when cheaters are allowed to cheat.

    Pat, you should be commended on trying to do the right thing. On your question as to whether something else should be done, only if you want to save the sport of trapshooting. Managements actions, or lack of action in this matter should be reported to the ATA. If management chooses not to enforce the rules, their license to run events should be suspended or revoked. HMB
     
  11. Don Steele

    Don Steele Well-Known Member

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    Pat, your personal credibility here is well founded, and beyond question. I'd be inclined to quietly, and privately advise the shooter what I BELIEVE I think I might have seen. Make him aware that folks watch other shooters. I'd also mention the incident to shoot management then relax and enjoy the day.
     
  12. gary0920

    gary0920 Member

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    Maybe he will forget to remove the wad from the barrel when he goes to shoot doubles. That would fall under "what comes around - goes around".
     
  13. awbenz

    awbenz TS Member

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    Makes me wonder about the other 4 men on the squad? A shooter at the state shoot in Kansas many yrs. ago was caught with little orange pieces of target in his reloads. He actually saw a piece. Would that leave 7/8 oz of shot?
    Allen
     
  14. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    It would be very noticeable of the off sounding shell for a wad to be stuck in the Bbl, for a wad to get stuck it would sound like Pffft, and most times the wad clears the Bbl unless it is ported. Ported Bbls save a lot of lost birds.

    No powder or very little and ported Bbl, wad is still in Bbl. My non ported Bbl will push the wad out with 1 1/8th oz and only primer = lost bird.

    I had a 99 in Hdcp because a shooter had a problem with his gun, he got it corrected, I closed my gun and called for a target( CLICK) I said mis-fire I opened the gun and I forgot to put a shell in it ( LOST )= 99 from 27yds

    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  15. atashooter

    atashooter Member

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    You know, thru the history of trapshooting, it has always been a " Gentlemans Sport". It is a shame that someone does not conduct themselves in a Gentleman, or nowdays, also Ladylike manner. The days of SHAME are gone and we are forced to accept any type of behavior. The days of shame dissapeared due to the "Its not my fault" syndrome that plagues this nation. Excuses of " My Parents were bad, My dog bit me when I was little, or whatever," we are expected to accept and makes all behavior OK. As far as I am concerned, if you cheat to get ahead, or do not conduct yourself correctly, you are worth less than the amount of powder it would take to blow your brains out....

    Rick Lalich
     
  16. Bruce Specht

    Bruce Specht Well-Known Member

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    Sandbaggers only cheat themselves, however in your situation I think I would have todl the shooter that I saw what he was doing as did others then walked away.
     
  17. waterhouselake

    waterhouselake TS Member

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    STEWARDS INQUIRY!!!! Hold all tickets!!!!
     
  18. RogerNRA

    RogerNRA TS Member

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    Pat, you are a better man than I. I think I would not have been able to keep my mouth shut. It would have been ugly.............Roger
     
  19. Trap2

    Trap2 Well-Known Member

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    Pat.... I would have done 4 things that day. 1) I would have informed the shooter what I had observed 2) I would have informed his entire squad what I had witnessed 3) I would have lodged a complaint with management 4) I would have lodged a formal complaint with the ATA, describing the events you witnessed. By the time it all got sorted out, everyone in the trapshooting world would know he was a cheat, and that would be the end of it.... Dan Thome (Trap2)
     
  20. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

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    TS Joe -

    He's actually on post 4.5, which means the angles are more difficult than if he was standing where he was supposed to be.

    Scott
     
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