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Cheap shells with brass base ??

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Doug Brown, Aug 4, 2013.

  1. Doug Brown

    Doug Brown Well-Known Member

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    Are there any of the cheaper shells, Rio, Estates, Fed top gun, etc. that have a brass base? The steel base Winchester super targets, hang up in my Seitz.
     
  2. Oregunner

    Oregunner Well-Known Member

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    Nope. Some of them have a brass wash over a steel base. Only Remington STS/Nitros, Winchester AAs, and Federal Gold Medals have brass bases in target loads. Mark
     
  3. acorange

    acorange Well-Known Member

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    All present made cheap hulls that I am aware of [US made and Eurotrash] are steel or brass washed steel.
     
  4. Stumpi24

    Stumpi24 Member

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    Buy the winchesters, send in the rebate and now they are as cheap as the cheap ones. Fixed. Stan
     
  5. tbobaa

    tbobaa Member

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    Doug I had the same problem in my seitz I give the chamber a good scrub and a little squirt of oil before I shoot and solved the problem
     
  6. SMiDSr

    SMiDSr Member

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    Related question, has anyone noted any damage to their chamber(s) from the steel vs. brass bases (steel on steel vs. brass on steel)? Does the brass over steel wash minimize any concern with this (e.g. Rio better than Gun Club)?
     
  7. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    They stick in my 90T so I just avoid them. 1100's freely digest them. Do whatever you gotta do.

    HM
     
  8. mich746

    mich746 Member

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    I shot a flat of Estates the weekend and was presently surprised. My impression was that they are a little better than top gun's and much better than Rio's, almost the same as AA's.

    Or maybe I was just hitting them good this weekend... Mich
     
  9. APrice

    APrice Active Member

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    Doug, I pretty much alleviated this problem in a Ljutic by spraying the chambers with Hoppes Dri-Lube spray before each 100 shells. Worth giving a try.

    BTW, I first tried the Remington Dri-Lube and it did not work at all on this problem.

    http://www.amazon.com/Hoppes-Dri-Lube-4-Ounce-Aerosol/dp/B0000D94ZW
     
  10. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    I just bought a flat of Estates Red Ones w/brass or brass colored bases I have 2 boxes left.

    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  11. Baber

    Baber TS Member

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    This is a common problem with L , SS and K type guns. The chambers are too tight. Have the manufacture relieve the chambers and the problem will go away.

    I don't have this problem with my Perazzi's.

    T
     
  12. Dennis DeVault

    Dennis DeVault Well-Known Member

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    Just to clarify the chambers are not too tight most all of us that manufacturer guns meet what the SAMMI spec. tells us what the chamber sizes have to be. The problem is in the shells. The shell manufacturers do not follow the specs and there is no one that will force them too hold the proper tolerances. I spoke very openly with two of the current shell manufacturers and spoke with the Quality Control managers so I went to the top and both stated they just don't care and felt that shooters in general are stupid. Their feeling is as long as they make the shells cheap enough people will buy them and if they have issues the gun manufacturer takes all the heat. In light of what is happening today they are never going to be held accountable unless the shooting public makes them that way and that will be in the form of not buying the ammunition. I just don't see that happening in the near future. Just my 2 cents worth.

    Dennis DeVault
     
  13. Johnny

    Johnny Well-Known Member

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    If the reason for steel base shells sticking is a tight chamber then why a tight chamber ? Is there an advantage? The manufacturers of these guns have to know the steel base shells stick in their guns so why don't they correct the problem?
     
  14. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Shoot enough of 'em and your chambers will naturally open!!
     
  15. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    I have not had ejection problems with Federal Top Guns or Estate taget loads which have the zinc washed steel bases. These shells eject out of my Kolar and Beretta 682 and travel about 6 feet before hitting the ground. Virtually the same as the premium shells like STS.

    The one brand that does hang up in my guns is the Fiocci 'Shooting Dynamics' shells which have a brass plated head. The hang up isn't on the metal but rather on the plastic part of the hulls. So it is easy to clear the gun, you just have to pluck the fired hull out of the chamber instead of getting an automatic ejection.
     
  16. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    Unless you have chromed chambers, this chamber hone from Brownell's may help, unless your chamber is already oversized. If that is the case, Briley can sleeve the chamber(s) if you want to keep the gun or barrel.

    I have zero trouble with them. Ljutics, in particular, are notorious for out of spec chambers and weak extraction.

    Blasers, Krieghoffs, Brownings, Perazzis, Kolars, and others I shoot or have shot gave no problems with these shells.

    My Blaser will eat anything. I had a firing pin issue with Rio ammo and Rio primers, but Blaser quickly made that problem go away.

    I will say I have a barrel at Blaser USA that gives problems with one particular shell. Believe it or not, this barrel has ejector issues with STS ammo!

    These steel-cased shells are not going away, and the gunmakers must make sure their products work with them.

    Don't be surprised if the "premium" shells go to the brass or zinc washed steel case heads.

    Briley has SLIGHTLY enlarged the chambers on their tube sets to give proper function with this ammo.

    In many cases, it IS the gun system.

    BTW, domestic ammo makers DO make their ammo to SAAMI specs. MOST foreign ammo makers comply with CIP standards.
     
  17. Johnny

    Johnny Well-Known Member

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    Dennis, If it's the shells that are the problem then why does a steel base shell never ever, ever stick in my BT99? I have seen many shells stick in high dollar American made guns. Ljutics are so bad about this it can be comical. Apparently those chambers are made to the minimum side of SAMMI specs. What's the advantage? I wouldn't think it's a fear of a chamber stretching beyond specs.
     
  18. Baber

    Baber TS Member

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    Dennis:

    There is a standard for chambers. Probably +or Minus 1/1000. The problem is all lot of these low volume high prices guns are built to a very high tolerance and are probably more to the minus side than the plus side so the shells stick. Relieving the chamber slightly will make the problem go away. I am sure that the chambers will still be in tolerance. This is a shell problem but the gun makers need to adapt to the steel hull and it can be done without putting the gun out of tolerance.

    There is an old story where Rolls Royce bought a automatic transmission design from GM. They built it to their standard of zero tolerance and the tranny would not work.

    Simply the chambers in these guns are too tight.

    T
     
  19. Leo

    Leo Well-Known Member

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    SAMMI Specs give a dimension AND a tolerance. If the shells are made to max spec and the chamber made to minimum spec, there is almost no clearance. I have played the benchrest game where I have a sizing die custome made to be exactly the same as my chamber, and also turn the rifle case necks to make the brass thinner. I am not sure that gained any accuracy in a benchrest rifle. I see no reason for a tight (or "match") chamber on a shotgun.

    That said, I personally have never had a shell/chamber issue. My last 6 shotgun purchases have been Remington, Remington, Beretta, Beretta, Beretta, Beretta. I have never once measured a chamber in any of them, no need. Never had ANY shell stick, even junky shells when the guns were filthy dirty. They must have been manufactured to the higher side of the spec.
     
  20. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    Ljutic's don't like the steel shells, that's for sure. My backup 303 will eat and spit out anything I put in it.
     
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